55 Pan hard starting PT 2

[tlacoss]

Hello
Well, I made it to the meet out in Greenfield and managed to find a reasonably usable stock FL cam. It's in. I also took kicker cover off and put a 14 tooth kicker gear in place.
When I replaced cam I reset all timing marks and checked all tolerances. I pulled timer up and reset it on full advance just opening when timing mark/slash is a little to rt in window as per HD manual. No start. Barely farts. Checked and charged battery. Getting spark and fuel.
When setting up for static timing I pulled both front pushrod covers up and waited for intake to start to drop, then did the bump routine till slash came to that rt side of window position. Re checked pushrods. Both spin in my fingers. Plugs out so I stuck a straw in and front piston high in cylinder so I'm assuming I'm on compression. Rear piston also high in cylinder, probably means nothing.
Dropped timer in and got it where it's supposed to be, full advance, small cam lobe, just kicking test light on.
Well, it does kick easier but it won't start.
What the hell am I missing here?
All the reading and You Tube stuff is great but I think I just missed something.
One thing I notice in all the videos is that when folks see the front intake lifter start to drop, they find the timing slash in a few bumps. I'm moving the flywheel a substantial distance. Both pushrods move within my slimy finger, piston still up.
Any input would be appreciated.

[DEEBS47Chief1991]

Defective cam? Timing teeth off? Will it start with the old cam installed? Coil hooked back up after static timing?

[otis71]

I’ve found I have to bump the rear wheel while in high gear a good amount before flywheel mark rears itself.

[T. Cotten]

.... Re checked pushrods. Both spin in my fingers...

Probably not your starting issue, TLA,...

But what kind of pushrods are you running?

Obviously not hydraulics...

(Aluminum 'solids' need to be pretty tight!)

....Cotten

[tlacoss]

Hi and thanks... Push rods are solid.. aluminum.. I'll snug them up a bit when I calm down enough to be in the same room as bike and a draw full of hammers.

Todd

[T. Cotten]

Hi and thanks... Push rods are solid.. aluminum.. I'll snug them up a bit when I calm down enough to be in the same room as bike and a draw full of hammers.

Todd

With my stroked Pan, Todd,...

I had to set them where I needed a rag on them to turn by fingers,..

Or they would be loose as a goose when warm.

Aluminum pushrods suck.

....Cotten
PS: Late edit: Here's how sloppy the quality control can be on common "slugs".

SLUGWEAR.jpg


Finger friction is no measure at all!

[T. Cotten]

Back to the starting issue, Todd,...

Forgive me, but it is my compulsion to address any possible vacuum leaks before any further conjuring.

Please indulge me, did you use a full fifteen for your bubble-tests, and did you test the Pan cover screws over each intake?

They can leak at even stranger places...

.....Cotten

[tlacoss]

Hi

Thanks for the input. I re timed, re adjusted pushrods, re checked for spark and fuel and started a kickn .
Well, still very hard, but it did start and sounded good. I had her idling for a good ten minutes then I shut her down and walked away. Twenty minutes later, nada. Could not restart.
I think there is something going on in the kicker to the clutch pack area.
I did replace the kicker gear and torqued it to 45 ft lbs. That seemed ungodly snug but I did it. Multiple online sources gave that number. Still it's 3 kicks that lock up at around the 8 o'clock area before the one successful kick which spins the motor. Kicker will occasionally slip.
I watched a video of Matt for Wheels Through Time where he started a barn find 55 pan and it showed me that all starting and kicking stuff just ain't normal.
Anyway, any thought would be appreciated.

[T. Cotten]

.....Anyway, any thought would be appreciated.

A couple thoughts, Todd,..

... did you use a full fifteen (psi) for your bubble-tests, and did you test the Pan cover screws over each intake?....

.....Cotten

[droptopford]

Hi

I think there is something going on in the kicker to the clutch pack area...
<<< Still it's 3 kicks that lock up at around the 8 o'clock area before the one successful kick which spins the motor. Kicker will occasionally slip.>>>

Don't know what other issues you may have that are making bike hard to start, but you're right... something's going on with the kicker and/or the clutch. Every downward movement of the kicker pedal should be turning the engine. You should easily be able to feel compression strokes at their proper intervals and the lesser resistance of the strokes in between.

[BigLakeBob]

As far as the kick issue, could the bushing 33438-50 in starter gear 33430-50 be so worn out that its binding? Which gear are you calling the kicker gear, 33350-36 or 33381-39? Kick arm should not slip, again gear 33430-50 hanging up on the mainshaft, teeth or ramps on gear 33350-36? How much slop does the kick arm shaft have in the kick cover bushings?

[jgbrown59]

Probably not related, but just in case, does this bike have a primary belt drive? I had a problem a couple years ago where I had the primary belt a little loose on a 47 FL and the belt was jumping teeth on the clutch basket while kicking it. The bike ran fine down the road, just a weird issue/feeling kicking it over. Also, if the belt is to tight, it will cause plate binding when releasing the clutch.

[tlacoss]

Well folks, how tight ya gotta be to snap the kicker shaft off?
Will start by a complete rebuild on kicker side, if that fails, then tranny out and rebuild that there thing.
Mr. Cotton, bubbles will have to wait. Maybe I'll take a bubble bath with candles and a bottle of tequila tonight, but that's the best I can do for now!
On to synchronizing the twin Amals on the 72 Bonny! Always something!
Thanks for the input and advice.
Gonna be awhile before I revisit the pan. Frustrated and I own to many hammers,
Thanks
Todd

[HDSmitty]

From the looks of those 2 pictures it's been ready to break for some time.