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Hard kicking 55 Pan FLF

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  • Hard kicking 55 Pan FLF

    Hello
    First time post. I've gotten a lot of good info from previous posts but this is my 1st ask.
    Older man here. Inherited 55 Pan from brother. He's not dead. He just didn't have time or ambition to keep this thing going. It was a 70's style chopper when he bought it back in the day, back from Vietnam and feeling the need to ride. He rode this for many years then parked it, in his 10th floor apartment in Honolulu. He retired and came back to mainland but before that he offered me the bike if I could get it out and shipped. I'm in Massachusetts. Anyway, got it done. Came to me in boxes and for the last 6 years I've been picking at it. I retired so now I have the time to finish some projects.
    Bike is period correct now as far as it's looks. Not all original. I used aftermarket where I had to, just based on my fixed income cheap old man lifestyle.
    I did not rebuild motor. My brother told me he had motor done before he put her away. I took the heads off, cam cover etc and inspected and cleaned and replaced gaskets.
    So.. when I got it to the point of trying to kick her over, way to much effort to operate kicker. Get to the nine o'clock position and jump down, no movement for 3 or for jumps then finally it spins and fires. Have had this thing running multiple times but never gets any easier. Thought it might just need to run in, but I'm not sure. I asked big brother for input but he has no clue. Twenty plus years since he took her down.
    So, I checked compression, Normal and same both cylinders. Does turn over easier with plugs out. Linkert M74 carb, seems fine. Solid lifters and push-rods and and Andrews A cam.
    Brother has no recollection of these mods. I can't find any good info on this cam , i.e. if head work was required or if it was a drop in. I have checked all tolerances and corrected them per factory specs. One of the push-rods was in the wrong place. Three equal one longer, the longer one was not where it should have been. That I confirmed and also triple confirmed with all the great post on this subject that I've seen here. No change in the amount of effort it takes to start this thing. Brutal and I'm old. I have 3 other kick start bikes, this ain't normal.
    I'm thinking the rebuild is maybe not a pro job as brother stated.
    Spring is coming and I'm thinking maybe go back to stock cam and hydrolic lifters and push-rods and redo all tolerances, timing ect.
    Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks folks!
    Todd


  • #2
    The A cam was popular back in the 70s and 80s. It has 470 lift and 244 duration in a Pan. It was necessary to set spring travel in a Pan, but not a Shovel. The Andrews J cam is a better choice, it's a little smaller, and produces power lower in the rpm range.
    vph-d

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    • #3
      The A cam raises felt compression and definitely needs to be retarded when starting. Always liked the stock FLH cam, ran good and idled well. I think motor may be too tight and will need some running.

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      • #4
        The A grind camshaft you currently have in your 55' is a basic profile with symmetrical cam events on the Intake side.
        The HD H grind for example has asymmetrical cam events occurring on the Intake side.
        By design, they are obviously very different as I'm sure you are aware of.
        The "A" grind should not kick over harder than the "H" grind.

        Do you know with certainty which Piston & Dome configuration is in the engine? It could be a static compression issue.
        It could also be a camshaft to crankshaft phasing issue with the pressed on gear.
        Our perhaps many other possibilities of mechanical bind throughout the engine, primary drive system and transmission...

        Like Tom stated, I too really like the "H" grind. It has all the correct attributes ( 7 degrees advance on the front and straight up 0 on the Rear) for a commonized intake manifold and singular carburetor fuel delivery phases supplying separate cylinders.
        ​​This makes the tuning more consistent from front to rear.

        The engineers of the day had it figured out!

        Duke

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        • #5
          Hi!
          Thanks for the input.
          Duke, I don't know the piston and dome configuration. What is static compression?
          I did disconnect primary chain and run through gears and kicker sequence and all moved easily and smoothly.
          I'm leaning toward the stock option and start over from there. Worst case scenerio, if no change, is pull the top end and re do, I got time!
          Thanks again!
          Todd

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          • #6
            Todd,
            Static compression is the measurement in CC volume taken at TDC verse BDC, only atmosphere pressure present. No actual air moving in or out of the cylinder heads and cylinders. These measurements are taken during the engine building process.

            Dynamic compression ratio takes in account the events of particular timing events of the actual camshaft installed. The compression PSI varies with RPM while operating. From say cranking(kicking) PSI verse PSI seen at say 4,500 RPM.
            ​​​​​​Hope this helps,
            Duke

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            • #7
              I appreciate the info. Way over my head, but much appreciated. I'll have to invest in a compression hammer to go with all my other fine tuning implements!
              Thanks!
              Todd

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              • #8
                The easiest way to make it easier to start would be to install a 14 tooth starter gear #33430-59 that was used on '55-'66 models. The earlier 4 speeds used a 16 tooth starter gear. I've made this change on a few friends bikes and they were very pleased with the results. This can be done without pulling the tranny, just the kicker cover.

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                • #9
                  Great info Ralph,books say late '59-'66 for that gear.The crank gear is same as earlier,so does'nt need changed.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah Roger, I meant to say '59-'66 in my above post. You are correct, the only thing that needs to be changed is the 14 tooth starter gear, It's teeth are designed to mesh with the stock crank gear.

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                    • #11
                      I didn't want him confused because he has a '55.There was an earlier easy kick gearset available as an option.That set used a different crank gear.I had a set that ended up with Dale Walksler.

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                      • #12
                        Todd
                        This post is interesting to me because I have a '53 FLE with the same problem; see my related panhead post for detailed statement of the problem and the steps taken thus far to find the cause. I'm an experienced motor builder and so far, this one has me stumped which is very frustrating, as this should be an easy-to diagnose problem. I put the bike aside for awhile, but am gearing up to take another go at it. Have you made progress toward a solution?
                        Thanks,
                        Bill Pedalino
                        Bill Pedalino
                        Huntington, New York
                        AMCA 6755

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                        • #13
                          Hi Bill
                          Been away so just seeing this. The pan has been a struggle. Thought I had it when I took out the Andrews A and put in stock FL cam. Put in 14 tooth kicker gear.
                          Snapped kicker gear off. At that point I snapped myself and walked away.
                          When I did get back to it this year, fixed every thing in kicker and moved on. Still to damn hard to kick.Did have her running. Would start cold fairly consistently. Once I shut her down, nope. Could not restart. Then one day I was riding her around back yard and bang. Heavy pushing even in short grass, big yard, lol.
                          Went after push rods and front intake fell out. Removed head intake rocker arm broken so I replaced it. Dent in top of pan cover. Don't know if it was from the break or was it hitting, to tight. Put Spacer gasket on. Did it again, ran for a bit. Always on first start up, still not able to do warm start up. Then bang again. I just assumed it was rocker arm or something in head. Nope. Took her down some and when I pulled tappet blocks off to peak inside.Lifter jammed into broken, ready for this, front exhaust slot.
                          I ran in the house and hugged my dog and prayed for a mechanical miracle. None came.
                          Stumped and pissed so i moved on to other things. 72 Bonny running nice. I'm able to get out.
                          Will replace both tappet blocks and try again with new hydraulic lifters and pushrods. Stock again. Would like to take it out in September. Going to be 70 and want to take ride on 70 year old motorcycle.
                          Before and after pics attached. Same bike, same brothers. We're both still alive! IMG_5234.jpg FB_IMG_1517960474770.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Nice photos - both motorcycle renditions. I loved those D&D springers. Our company was one of the first to sell them direct, outside of D&D, as we had the first East Coast arrangement with Boyd DeFrance in the early 1970's. Seeing one always brings me back to my 20's!.
                            Sounds like you have some further investigating to do, as do I. You state that the Lifter (tappet) was jammed into the front exhaust lifter block slot, which was also broken. I assume you mean the slot in the lifter block? If so, broken lifter blocks are not a normal failure mechanism unless an oversized lifter body was used and the tappet block wasn't properly honed to accept it and it seized..
                            Given the above, after you've replaced the front lifter block, might I suggest the following?
                            One thing that I did during my multiple (and ongoing) checks, is to remove the heads, remove the pan covers, and reinstall the heads only on the motor (without spark plugs) . Use new head gaskets and just snug-tight the head bolts.
                            After reinstalling and adjusting the tappets and pushrods (don't install the pushrod covers), turn the motor over by hand and watch the valves operate. Using a pry bar between the tappet and lifter block, check that each valve, when fully open, has some free travel until the valve spring coil-binds, or the upper spring collar hits the top of the valve guide. I suspect that, if you have a valve circuit problem, you'll be able to identify it by doing this. Also look at the inside of the pan covers for marks above the pushrod side of each rocker assembly. These steps are a start, but they should at least help you identify any obvious valve circuit problems. This would be 'Process-One' and I'm sure others here can and will offer succeeding steps to further your investigation.
                            I wish you good luck in you search and i hope that your solution doesn't prove to be as evasive as mine (see my post on this subject). Just focus upon how good you'll feel when you've found the culprit. That's what's keeping me going as I try to correctly diagnose my '53's ongoing saga..
                            Bill Pedalino
                            Last edited by billpedalino; Yesterday, 04:29 PM.
                            Bill Pedalino
                            Huntington, New York
                            AMCA 6755

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