54 Panhead Frame

[sieber60]

Trying to identify a 54 frame and was wondering when Harley started stamping the motor mount with a date code? I'm sure this first question is going to lead to other identifier questions, but I wanted to start with this question first.

Thanks
John

[HD48FL]

1952 is the first year they used a date code on the upper motor mount.

[Rubone]

Trying to identify a 54 frame and was wondering when Harley started stamping the motor mount with a date code? I'm sure this first question is going to lead to other identifier questions, but I wanted to start with this question first.

Thanks
John

Keep in mind that many 54 models have frames date coded as 53 so any date code of G or H 3 (or 3 G or H, they seemed to do them both ways) are most likely early '54 production. How high is your VIN? There are three distinct frames in '54, early, mid, and late.

[ryan]

They had both a straight leg and a wish bone frame didn't they? I have and old 54 wishbone chopper frame and was told I was suppose to have a straight leg frame??? Does anyone have the serial numbers where the frame changes were made?

[Speeding Big Twin]

John, on a Harley Panhead rigid frame the earliest date code I’ve seen is 3B (1953 February). It’s possible there were date codes on some Panhead frames made in Jan 53 but at this stage I do not expect to see date codes on any Pan frames made earlier than that.

Recently Bruce Palmer brought out his latest restoration book but I do not have a copy so I don’t know if he updated it with new info about Pan frames.
Eric

[sieber60]

Thanks all for the info.

Any other numbers that might identify the year?

[Kozy]

Thanks all for the info.

Any other numbers that might identify the year?

http://howtorestoreyourharleydavidson.com/

[Speeding Big Twin]

What is the date code?

What are the forging numbers and die numbers on the:
steering head (check both sides)
sidecar loops (check inside and outside)
front engine mount (at the back)
rear engine mount (at the back)
axle clips (outside)
seat post forging (underneath). Also look on top for other markings.

Photos of everything you find would help and photos of both sides of the entire frame would also be a good idea.
Eric

[sieber60]

What is the date code?

What are the forging numbers and die numbers on the:
steering head (check both sides)
sidecar loops (check inside and outside)
front engine mount (at the back)
rear engine mount (at the back)
axle clips (outside)
seat post forging (underneath). Also look on top for other markings.

Photos of everything you find would help and photos of both sides of the entire frame would also be a good idea.
Eric

Unfortunately I can't send pictures of the frame now because it's fully assembly, however, I believe it is the correct mount and the frame shows no signs of repairs or changes. I did find some casting numbers on the lower rear axle section and appears to have a hallmark on the neck and maybe on the right rear section of the axle area. Front down tubes are round and no horn mount and loops are there. I have been told by a guy in Springfield Mo. that it might be a 53'

The motor mount has I 0

Left rear axle section - XE7 11

Right rear axle section - X7 6 9 I think

[Speeding Big Twin]

I believe it is the correct mount and the frame shows no signs of repairs or changes.

The motor mount has I 0

Left rear axle section - XE7 11

Right rear axle section - X7 6 9 I think

The correct mount? What did you think I 0 indicated?

If the top mount has I 0 then it indicates either Sept 1960 or Sept 1970 if it’s on the R-H side, depending on the style of mount. If I 0 was on the left side it would indicate Sept 1980. But all three of those mounts would be on swingarm frames originally.

Below is code I 0 on a swingarm frame made in Sept 1960. Notice the overall shape of the mount as well as the type of opening for the bolt. Does your mount, including the opening, look like this?





Why did that guy in Springfield tell you the frame might be 53? If it was 53 then originally the front downtubes would have had horn mounts but you have none? What did he say about I 0 on the top mount?

On the R-H axle clip the forging number may be XE-6 and it was used for a long time. According to Palmer’s SE die number 9 could indicate 1950–52 (and 1953?) and 1954.

On the left axle clip, forging number XE-7 sounds good but it too was used for some time. Palmer has no entry for die number 11. Are you sure it is 11? For 1954 we’d be looking for die 15. Could yours be 15?
Eric

[sieber60]

I looked at the left clip again an it looks more like 14. I’m looking back to see if I have a picture of the motor mount. If I can find one I will post it.

Is there something called a second version frame?

[sieber60]

04076DA9-5C19-4ECC-AAAB-1857C545F4A6.jpg

I hope this picture come through and you can expand it.

[Speeding Big Twin]

According to Palmer’s SE, die number 14 was on the left clip for 1950–52. He has no entry for 1953 and then he goes to die 15 for 1954–55. However, maybe 14 could also have been used for some 54s?

I cannot expand your photo without it becoming blurry but maybe someone else can sort that out for us. Your top mount does appear to have the same overall shape and type of opening as my example. Can you confirm that please.

Is there something called a second version frame?

As Robbie said on the first page, for 54 there were three frames. You mentioned your frame has no horn mounts and the downtubes are round so I assume you mean they are not flattened? If not flattened then it sounds like the downtubes may be approximately mid-54 if the frame is wishbone. (I can’t tell from your photo if it’s wishbone or S-L. Late-54 is S-L.)

If your engine number is authentic, what range is it?
Cylinders appear black? I myself prefer them like that but if you’re trying for a full restoration then they should be silver.
What’s going on with the toolbox? It doesn’t sit properly.

And there is still the problem of date code I 0 but maybe some type of repair or alteration was done. On top of your seat post forging is there a repair number similar to the example below?
Eric

[sieber60]

Vin is low 5100 and line bore numbers match. Front head has E L or maybe a 7 2?? 110 50 and the rear head has E 9 and 110 501 the best I can tell.
After a very close look at the tubes they are slightly flattened and possibly had the horn blocks removed. To really confirm the top mount I will need to remove the right tank. I will try to do more comparison with picture I have and your example. I picked up a Palmer yesterday so I will study the examples there as well. The information your giving is very helpful... I think this bike has a lot of good original parts but wasn’t restored original obviously, but nicely done.

[Rubone]

With that VIN it should have a straightleg version frame the change having occurred in about the mid 4000s VIN number range.