Seat rails help id

[lrcormier]

Can anyone identify these two seat rails, I'm pretty sure they are original but don't know when they would of been available. My seat has the skirt with two holes for fitting the the horseshoe shaped hand rails but not crazy about the look. I guess these type of rails where sold as an accessory so couldn't find then in a parts book and Palmer doesn't address these either. I think the one with the "V" in back might of been make available in 49, but not sure, and have no clue about the other one.

[Rubone]

You are a decade off, the V type was new in '59, the zig-zag one is aftermarket or homemade, not stock H-D.

[lrcormier]

Thanks Robbie. I liked the one with the single V best and although not period correct for my 52 build I think I'll use it anyways. Interesting about the zig/zag one, I've had it for almost 40 years so don't know what aftermarket manufacturer would of made it but homemade is a good possibility, likely used a original V rail because the dimensions and construction look identical to it.

[lrcormier]

Been doing some internet searches and there are two part numbers that I came up with for identical V type seat rails, one is 91575-49 and one is 91574-58, can't see any difference.

[FCJ]

lrcormier:

HD handrails, including the V type (aka Twin Tube or V tube) handrail, are listed in the parts catalogs and addressed by Palmer. I don't know when the V type handrail (91574-58) first appeared in the literature, but it is in the 1959 accessory catalog. In his 2nd edition, Palmer indicates that the V type handrail was introduced for the 1958 models. But, I think I agree with Robbie. I believe that the V type handrail was assigned a part number and produced in 1958 and introduced in 1958 but for the 1959 models (not the 1958 models).

The pictured V type handrail looks like the earlier style that was used for 1959-1961 models and some or all of the 1962 models. I believe that production changed to the later style V type handrail (91574-58A) at some point in 1962.

Robbie:

Do you know if any version of any HD handrail has "closed" end brackets on all four (4) of the support rails (i.e., as compared to "open" end brackets on the front two (2) support rails as pictured above)? I seem to recall seeing some handrails with four (4) "closed" end brackets at some point when I first started looking around, but I think that I assumed they were aftermarket at the time (due to the brackets and/or some other reason) and I can't find any examples now.

[FCJ]

there are two part numbers that I came up with for identical V type seat rails, one is 91575-49 and one is 91574-58, can't see any difference.

Somehow missed your last posts when I replied earlier. I don’t know what you are looking at or why you can’t see any difference, but those part numbers are for two (2) different buddy seat handrails, as described below and pictured below.

The Style Master type handrail is a single-tube handrail that appears with part numbers in accessory catalogs as follows: (a) 91575-49 in 1949-1955; (b) 91575-49A in 1956-1964; and (c) 91575-49B in 1965-1967.

I don’t know why the PN changed from 91575-49 to 91575-49A. Note that the same handrail image may have been used for the 1955 and 1956 accessory catalogs.

As to design changes related to the PN change from 91575-49A to 91574-49B, I believe that the back two (2) supports were (i) moved closer to each other along the primary tube and (ii) changed from being more angled towards each other to being more parallel to each other.

The Twin Tube type handrail is a twin-tube handrail (with a V shape in between the twin tubes) that appears with part numbers in accessory catalogs as follows: (a) 91574-58 in 1959-1962; and (b) 91574-58A in 1963-later.

As to design changes related to the PN change from 91574-58 to 91574-58A, I believe that the back two (2) supports were (i) moved closer to each other along the bottom tube and (ii) changed from being more angled towards each other to being more parallel to each other. Note, however, that the same handrail images may have been used for the 1962 and 1963 accessory catalogs.

I believe that there is handrail type-specific variation, including variation attributable to (x) the manufacturing process generally and (y) specific design changes (e.g., shape; tubes; supports; brackets; welds; and holes), not all of which were accompanied by a PN change.

As to handrail shape variation generally, professionals (e.g., seat restoration shops and reproduction suppliers) claim (half-jokingly) that no two (2) handrails are identical. Because there is so much variation, many professionals insist on having any handrail that will be used before they will punch any holes in a skirt.

From 1964 accessory catalog:


[END]

[lrcormier]

I guess what through me off was because there are a few aftermarket companies selling a seat rail using part number 51575-49 and using a picture of dual rail V type. I now see the error of my ways. I also looked in Palmers again and you are right, they are in there, I guess I was in a hurry when I looked last and really didn't take the time to actually read the complete section on seats. I really need to place more trust in this resource. Again thanks for your detailed post. Also I now believe the rail with the zig/zag design may have originally been a single rail type and someone did some handy work to it.

[FCJ]

I really need to place more trust in this resource. Again thanks for your detailed post. Also I now believe the rail with the zig/zag design may have originally been a single rail type and someone did some handy work to it.

I almost always start with Palmer. But, I was reminded to be cautious when I got to the discussion of seats. That discussion is probably not the strongest part of Palmer's books. I don't mind betting on Palmer (sometimes risking being wrong if he is wrong about something). I am more confident going with whatever Robbie says on any particular subject. As long as I take care to note and can grasp the import of the specific wording that is used. I get in trouble when I try to paraphrase or summarize something in my notes because slightly different terms can have very different meanings.

You may be right about the zig zag handrail. I don’t have a literature collection like Robbie or Chris, but I have seen a number of aftermarket catalogs from the period and I don’t believe that I have ever seen that particular zig zag design. As to earlier aftermarket handrails, note that many of them were not designed to use (pass through) any of the holes in the OEM skirt.

As to OEM handrails, note that, in addition to the angled/parallel (back support tube) variations, I believe that there are also “short” and “medium” and “tall” (back support tube height) variations of each handrail type.

I suspect that “medium” height handrails may be related to or explained by the thickness of the Super Soft buddy seat, but the literature seems to be inconsistent with that suspicion.

I suspect that “tall” handrails may be related to or explained by the backrest, but the literature seems to be inconsistent with that suspicion also.