Frame help

[lrcormier]

This is kind of a follow on to my previous post. I'm preparing to send my frame to WASCO for head replacement and horn mount attachments, I've had this project for 38 years so information available back then wasn't what it is today and did some digging into palmers restorration guide. This is suppose to be a 52 panhead rebuild and most of what I have is original HD for this, however it looks like my frame may actually be a 48 frame based on the front motor mount die number of 48 621 1, right axle clip XE-6 6, left axle clip XE-7 10, seat post 48E-1 1, also the front down tubes appear round with no indentation for horn mounts. The tool box mount has been changed to the 52 style. The reason for sending to wasco is for neck replacement because at some point the dash mount had been hacked off but back in early 80 before I acquired the pan the dash mount had been replaced however it does not have the boss for the steering dampner. So armed with all this information should I proceed with the neck replacement and should I have wasco do the slight flatening on the down tubes for the welding of the horn mounts or leave the tubes round as this can never be a restoration. Otherwise this frame is in really good condition, would you go ahead and proceed using this frame to build a 52 panhead? See some attached photos.

[Chris Haynes]

Have them restore it to what it actually is. If it isn't what you need it can easily be sold for enough to buy what you need. 48 parts are in demand. I have a boogered up 48 frame I need to send them.

[lrcormier]

Thanks Chris, that's what I was thinking. I'll look for a 52 frame but If I can't find one in as perfect condition as this one will end up I'll go ahead and use it for my 52 build and give up on the idea of it ever being a restoration, after all I'm not getting any younger and I have already waited too long for me to enjoy this project.

[aumick10]

I agree with Chris. If you need to have work on your frame, it is little extra effort to make it correct. At least then you have a correct frame to use as you want.

[Jerry Wieland]

1948 frames had the boss for the Hydra-Glide damper but it was not drilled for the pin until maybe late 1948. If the boss is gone someone has removed it.

Jerry

This is kind of a follow on to my previous post. I'm preparing to send my frame to WASCO for head replacement and horn mount attachments, I've had this project for 38 years so information available back then wasn't what it is today and did some digging into palmers restorration guide. This is suppose to be a 52 panhead rebuild and most of what I have is original HD for this, however it looks like my frame may actually be a 48 frame based on the front motor mount die number of 48 621 1, right axle clip XE-6 6, left axle clip XE-7 10, seat post 48E-1 1, also the front down tubes appear round with no indentation for horn mounts. The tool box mount has been changed to the 52 style. The reason for sending to wasco is for neck replacement because at some point the dash mount had been hacked off but back in early 80 before I acquired the pan the dash mount had been replaced however it does not have the boss for the steering dampner. So armed with all this information should I proceed with the neck replacement and should I have wasco do the slight flatening on the down tubes for the welding of the horn mounts or leave the tubes round as this can never be a restoration. Otherwise this frame is in really good condition, would you go ahead and proceed using this frame to build a 52 panhead? See some attached photos.

[lrcormier]

Jerry, it's not that someone only removed the boss, someone way back when hacked off the entire speedometer mount, front and rear tank mount, tool box mount and welded a piece of metal over steering key lock. Repairs that were done back in the late 70's early 80s used a speedometer mount that did not have a steering dampner boss, a 52 style tool box mount was welded in along with rear and front tank mounts and crash bar plate (both look good but not factory correct. I attempted to remove the welded over key hole thinking that I might try and salvage the exiting neck and to dome further repair to the speedometer mount. But the welded piece over keyhole did not come off cleanly and there is a little damage to the forging. Strangely enough the locking pin was still in place and loose. I think the right thing to do is to go ahead and bite the bullet and get the neck replaced, get the correct front and rear mounts put on, but I will leave the toolbox mount alone because based on other frames I've seen out there even a 52 frame at 5k would still need repair. I will concede the fact that this cannot be a true restoration but the frame I have is solid and minus adding any horn mounting blocks will look correct to the unknowing eyes. I have a nice 52 motor that sill needs a little work, all the body parts with original emblems, the tail light housing is not original but the lens is and also have a restored 51 license plate with the 52 tag, the individual at the time was planning on this being a restoration but he did not have all the information available to him back then that is available today. Unfortunately cancer got to him so he sold all his inventory along with this project. I wish I could of also bought one of the Indian fours he had, he had a very large selection of complete bikes needing restoration and a large inventory of parts, I just did not have the funds at the time to buy more than I did. I do have a question, should I try and salvage the steering cups from this frame or buy new ones for the new neck that will be installed, the races in the neck are new?

[larry]

Why not let WASCO decide the best way to repair the frame. A new neck may not be necessary.

[41craig]

Ircormier; Instead of shipping your frame and replacing the steering head. I would buy the V-Twin " weld in lock insert with lock" . Part # 51-0349 for $ 144.38 retail. From Wasco I would buy the top speedo mount part # W-048 for $ 78.00 and the rear gas tank mount part # W-061-A for $62.00. Then have your favorite local welder ( not a trailer hitch welder ) but someone that knows metal. Cut out the web in the neck that the lock sits in. Weld the new insert in place. You will have to take a die grinder ( Dremel Tool ) and dress the weld. Cut the front of the speedo mount section, on the frame. Cut the same amount off of your replacement mount and weld it in place. Make sure that you mock up the steering damper so that it fits when you put your front end on. Then cut and weld the new rear tank mount. All welds will have to be dressed for a clean, not noticeable repair. You will need to have your tanks available to make sure that the tanks mount correctly. This way you keep intact a major part of your frame. Plus the Wasco speedo mount repair piece will have the OEM casting numbers. I wouldn't weld horn mounts on your round legs as there is very little room on the later, flattened frame leg to clear the front head. If you or someone else ever wants use the frame for a 1948 bike, it will be a minor repair to remove the damper pin section. AGAIN, this is what I would do.
Good luck, Craig

[lrcormier]

41craig, I have considered what you suggest but don't know any good welders, is this something that can be done with a mig wire welder? I know I would same some money by doing the repair instead of replace, but is there a downside to getting a full replacement or is better to keep the original neck as much as possible? I've heard too many horror stories from others attempts to repair or get repaired from supposed frame welders. I just don't want to experiment with something I have no skill in, I can wrench but I'm not a machinist. Wascolders, is this something that can be done with a mig wire welder? I know I would same some money by doing the repair instead of replace, but is there a downside to getting a full replacement or is better to keep the original neck as much as possible? I've heard too many horror stories from others attempts to repair or get repaired from supposed frame welders. I just don't want to experiment with something I have no skill in, I can wrench but I'm not a machinist. Wasco is a trusted frame repair specialist so maybe as Larry suggest, let WASCO decide which way is best. Thanks for everyone's input.
Louis

[Chris Haynes]

WASCO has the jigs to make sure that replacement parts are in the exact correct position.

[41craig]

Ircormier; I just talked to my frame guy. He said that he tig welds, because it fuses it together for a cleaner weld. When I went to have my frame stretched on my 41 ULH chopper in the early '70's, I did not trust the local chopper shop for the stretch. They were using solid stock for the backbone which did not seem smart. So I went to a hot rod shop in St. Louis that built drag race chassis. They did a beautiful job that is still holding up more than 45 years later. In your area of the country, there must be plenty of more than qualified shops. But, as I stated earlier, this is what I would do. This your bike, so take in all the advice that you can. Chris, larry and others have also given you very good advice. Maybe some others here will offer more thoughts on your repair.
Craig

[lrcormier]

Chris, it seems like you have had some experience with wasco repairing your frames. Would it make more sense to keep an otherwise intact steering head and do repairs such as speedo mount and steering lock area replacement? I suspect that if an outfit such as WASCO with a lot of experience in frame repair could make it look as good as new.

[Chris Haynes]

WASCO are masters at restoring butchered necks. De-raking, replacing locks, speedo mounts, ETC. My old Friend Tom "Rooster" Johnson worked there. He was the guy who dressed everything back to normal after the repairs were done.

[lrcormier]

I just got my frame back from WASCO, and all I can say is wow, wow, wow. Richard at WASCO is amazing, if I didn't know better I would think the entire neck was replaced, just the speedometer mount part was replaced and the key hole outer broken area got repaired. I tried to find evidence of welding but not possible. I know some will frown at this but I went ahead and had him install the horn mounts along with the newer upper motor mount/seat mount. For all intent and purposes this frame (48) looks like a 52 frame except for the front lower motor mount and die numbers on rear axle mount castings. There was straitning done and some other repairs to mounting holes that got elongated over time and or where the mounting hole such as for the transmision plate should of been threaded but had got drilled out. I have to also say this was not cheap, but if you want your frame to look as if it just came from the factory you get what you pay for. Someday down the road after I'm gone, someone may want to take this bike to that next level and discover the frame is not correct and do some swapping, but in the meantime I will get this project on the road and enjoy it for a few years. Unfortunately the powder coating may have to wait until we get past this pandemic.

[white1j0]

Does Wasco repair axle plates that had the rear stand mounts ground off, if so has anyone had it done and how do they look?