Fixture

[Steve Little]

Anyone got any clues on the vintage of these "Soft bend" starter cranks?

[TechNoir]

Anyone got any clues on the vintage of these "Soft bend" starter cranks?

Could be a simple as that they all started out the same and then over the course of time a couple of bikes have been dropped and the cranks bent. Then the cranks have been straightened out and afterwards the bend looks slightly different to the originals?

John

[Steve Little]

Hi John. That's a possibility. There aren't any obvious marks to see on either of those arms.
The kicker arms are an easy thing to check on a bike. I squatted down behind my 51 Pan and had a quick look and I could see that when I rebuilt that gearbox a few years ago, I installed a kicker that has a sharp bend.

[Steve Little]

I can't think of any use on a vintage Harley for this bigger model. It covers a range of 1.5" to 2.75".... perhaps fixing a galled kr-xlr crank pin.
They're hellish expensive when new, and hardly ever come up for sale as pre loved.

And then 2 are listed on eBay in one week. One is in Australia and one in Corvina LA.
Stephen, step away from the computer ...You don't need this.



http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201679455144?ul_noapp=true

I am expecting a call early this week from the Hard Chrome guy to come and pick up the two starter cranks.

[kg993]

I don't have a NOS, OEM, shaft to measure, so I used a new #33096-54B JIMS shaft to determine the correct size.
The JIMS shaft measures 2 tenths shy of 0.750”
I'm guessing the tolerance is probably +000” /-0005”

I tried a couple of “James gaskets #33076-37” quad seals on the JIMS shaft and it has excellent surface tension.
After fitting the “James” quad seals to a range of under sized shafts, I can report that they loose contact with a shaft at about 0.733”
I don't have any OEM seals, so cant make an assessment if they still hold at 0.733”

James Gasket quad seals, still have minimal surface tension at 0.738” but my guess is they may leak through capillary action.

I plan to get a couple of the smallest shafts Hard Chromed, and I will hone them to 0.750.

Future Steve, will report back then.

Feel free to debate, discuss, or write a scathing rebuttal, to any, or all, that I have surmised.

I am wondering when thinking about the lost quad seal tension, have you considered making a sleeve to reduce the I.D. between the bushings and squeeze the seal tighter? Maybe using a longer undersized bushing and machining an end for the seal to fit in would be easier to install.

[Steve Little]

Hi. I got the hard chromed shafts back and they look great. Thought I should finish this thread off. So I took some pictures and tried to send them to Photobucket so I could link them to the thread for all to see.
I haven't used Photobucket since the last post on here, so it has been about 5 weeks. Put in the usual username and password, Bup bahh Incorect Username or password...Huh? I must have been day dreaming. Try again. Same result. Clicked the Forgot my username box and typed in the username.
This Username is not registered with us. What?
Any body else struck this problem since Photobucket did and overhaul some weeks back?
It would be a shame if I have lost all my pictures.

[1950Panhead]

Any body else struck this problem since Photobucket did and overhaul some weeks back?

Steve,
My account is still working, your photos are still posted, try the "forgot" button to recover your id and pw.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/...psajbe1lfd.jpg

[Steve Little]

Hi.
Haven't been in my workshop for a while but its blowing a gale today, so thought I might get in here try to finish off a couple of jobs.
Kerry. Sorry for the late reply. I like lateral thinking and your idea may work out a lot cheaper than the route I have taken.





These are the starter cranks I sent to be hard chromed. One is smooth as babies bum, the other has some micro pimpling in the chrome but the hone will take care of those.
Before chroming, I cleaned the ruts and wear out of the shafts.
After honing, one measured 0.733 and the other was about 0.738” After chroming, the .733” shaft is now .769” and the 738” shaft is now .784”. Both will be honed down to 0.750"
Hard chrome for each shaft was AU$150. This is aside from the work I did on them. Both shafts still have to be honed down so some labour to put into them.

A thought to ponder:
Does a detailed, repair like this help to determine the going price of a worn out original unit?
Or is there no common sense used in determining the price of vintage HD parts?
Perhaps there is no logic... just pay what is on the sticker.

One of these cranks had been chromed and I had it stripped a while back. The other crank was a nice original paint unit. But I notice they have blasted the paint off a portion of it. These were posted back to me so I didnt get to ask about why they need bare metal.

Also thanks 1950Panhead for the Photobucket input.
When I sold the business a couple of years ago, the web site and all email addresses connected to it went to the new owner. He contacted me recently to tell me that the web host in Melbourne was asking him if he wanted to renew for the next two years. He is moving the web site to a host in Japan so I helped him close the contract in Melbourne about 3 weeks ago. I didn't realise that my contact email for Photobucket was still steve@raceframe so it took a bit of wrangling but got it sorted and I'm back into Photobucket.

Another question on Photobucket. When copying the link, do I click DIRECT or HTML?
The reason I ask is when I followed the link from 1950Panhead I could see other pictures in my Photobucket file.
I have been using Direct in previous posts.
Regards Steve

[BigLakeBob]

Steve, isn't honing that much going to take quite a while? Wouldn't OD grinding be better? I realize it would take a pretty large swing grinder, but honing .034 in hard chrome will be quite the task.

[Steve Little]

Hi Bob.
I'm with you on that.
After posting here today, I set the lathe up and had an experiment with the hone on the hard chrome. I only have mild steel stones and after 20 minutes of honing I had nicely polished the shaft but had only removed 001".
I then rang Sunnon and got their advice on stones and guides. The quote on two sets of diamond stones and hardened guides for the job would run close to AU$800.

When harleytoprock suggested a tool post grinder, the idea starting looping through my head. Damn it toprock. Be careful where you point those loaded ideas 
There is a second hand machinery dealer that I like to drop into sometimes.
But I try to keep my visits short. For some reason I can turn into a impulse shopper while I'm in there.
After I dropped the cranks at the hard chromer a while back, I was driving home and was due to go past the road to the machinery house. No!...I haven't got time. No really. I haven't got any money......on went the blinker and in I went.
They had a really nice pre loved (mid size) Waldon tool post grinder for $600.
I didn't buy it at the time...thinking I was doing so well. But I did take a picture with my phone. I will upload the picture to Photobucket tomorrow and post it here.

Considering the cost of the diamond stones and guides for the hone, I could buy the grinder and be in front. I haven't used a tool post grinder before but my friend YouTube showed me most of what I needed know.
I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if it is still there.

The hone did a beautiful job of cleaning the original steel on the shafts but it is not the right tool for roughing 030" off a product like hard chrome.
Thanks for your input Bob.
Regards your humble apprentice Steve

[38 el]

I just turned the shaft true, and it cleaned up at about .736 or so. Then made an undersize bushing to match.....

[harleytoprock]

Hi Steve, I've used this company in California to save some parts for me.
http://www.ecgrinding.com/
My lathe tool post grinder pales compared to the massive grinding equipment they have. They can undercut the shaft, hard chrome with masking and then grind to your size specs. The only problem for you would be the shipping expense. Maybe you can find a similar company by you. Good Luck! HTR

[BigLakeBob]

I just turned the shaft true, and it cleaned up at about .736 or so. Then made an undersize bushing to match.....

I did the same thing for mine, you just can't go too small because the gear needs a surface to seat against. Then I (purists close your eyes) counterbore the cover to accept a lip seal (the washer hides it all) and gang the bushings together or make a one piece longer bushing. I figured this way oil gets to both bushings and dirt doesn't enter and destroy the end that always wears the most. A problem I also encountered was the square that locates the gear was worn from use and probably a loose nut. I had a few welded but haven't got around to remachining the square yet.

[Steve Little]

It is only 240 volt. I have found one that is same size but 3 phase 440 volt. How much grunt do I need?

[exeric]

That seems like overkill for a tool post grinder. I've always thought patience, and light passes were the key to accurate, and successful grinding. However, I do remember machinists that believed deep cuts, at maximum feeds were the hallmarks of efficiency Having said all that, Steve; that looks like a very nice tool post grinder, and one I'd like to own.