Rear chain sprocket loose, need rivets and help

[carlm]

I was doing some maintenance on my '55 FL and found that the rivets on the rear chain sprocket are loose and 3 are missing. Anyone know where I can get new rivets and the best way to apply them. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Jerry Wieland]

I would give Chuck at Kickstart a call for rivots - 616 245 8991 They need to be peened with a rivot set. Somewhat of a lost art but easy enough to do. Basically a punch with a concave face. Jerry

[carlm]

I just bought a setup from Old Dude. He also had the tool for peening the rivets. I guess I will be pulling the back end apart again.

[Panacea]

carim, just curious, when you say "the tool" is it just one concave punch? or do you also need a concave tool for the factory rivet head?...Mike

[Robert Luland]

Thought I'd chime in on this. Harley used a orbital riveter on those sprockets as they did on every rivet on the bike. This is why they are perfectly domed. A orbital riveter spins as it applies pressure. Basically it's working the metal. The answer to your question as far as what you call the hand tool. It's called a rivet setting tool or rivet set. Now for all you guys that like throwing your money away? Look in the back of your manual. Harley was nice enough to give you the exact size of the rivet. These are nothing more than run of the mill carbon steel rivets. Nothing special! The only thing I do to them is glass bead them and parkerize them. Harley didn't do this but I do because I'm anal. Then go to McMaster-Carr.com and they will be nice enough to sell ya about a hundred for about $7 clams. That's it, lessons over. Back to the beer!
Bob L

[carlm]

The tool I was referring to is a punch with a concave end. I have made a dimple on my bench vice that holds the rivet head. I will heat the rivet and use the punch to peen it. The rivets came with the new sprocket from Old Dude. Those are my thoughts on how to do this. I welcome any ideas you have.

[Robert Luland]

Carl - I didn't mean to be off hand here to you - but this is a particular subject that I do for my living. If you are going to do this with a hand set yes, it is a concave hole in the bottom of the set. The way we use to do it in the old days was to use a carbide burr of the right diameter of the rivet head and make a tool in a lathe. As far as you heating the rivet up, it won't work. Back in its day when iron workers riveted hot rivets it was totally hot, I mean the whole rivet was orange. Which means when it was struck it would deform equally. The problem you are going to have by heating a little rivet like the ones you are doing on the end will allow one end of the rivet to deform before the rest in the orifice does. If the rivet doesn't spread out and deform within the hole then you have defeated the purpose. If you would like to make your own set. Use 4140 steel and flame heat till orange and quench in motor oil. I've never had one of these fail on me. Bob L.

[c.o.]

Bob... just sitting on the sidelines here... your tech posts are always appreciated!!!

[carlm]

Carl - I didn't mean to be off hand here to you - but this is a particular subject that I do for my living. If you are going to do this with a hand set yes, it is a concave hole in the bottom of the set. The way we use to do it in the old days was to use a carbide burr of the right diameter of the rivet head and make a tool in a lathe. As far as you heating the rivet up, it won't work. Back in its day when iron workers riveted hot rivets it was totally hot, I mean the whole rivet was orange. Which means when it was struck it would deform equally. The problem you are going to have by heating a little rivet like the ones you are doing on the end will allow one end of the rivet to deform before the rest in the orifice does. If the rivet doesn't spread out and deform within the hole then you have defeated the purpose. If you would like to make your own set. Use 4140 steel and flame heat till orange and quench in motor oil. I've never had one of these fail on me. Bob L.

Bob, that's why I asked. I always hope that someone with much more experience than me will take the time to set me straight. I am hoping to put together a press that I can use to set the rivets correctly. This is not going to be as easy as I first thought. But with help from folks like you I will succeed.

Thanks Carl

[Robert Luland]

Carl, here's the problem with the press thingy. We still use our 50 ton press to rivet stuff but it's limited to places that are not seen such as the back of a clutch hub off a motorsickle that we don't have a jig set up for. No matter how tight your machining skills, the press will won't to veer off to one side or the other. It's very difficult to get it to press down dead on. In other words, you're not going to get that perfect factory head but the job will be done to a suitable and acceptable standard as far as keeping things together. Riveting in its self is an art form. When I was a kid learning in a sheet metal shop. I used to watch in awe as the old timer would use a hand set and a bucking bar on copper conductor heads and get it perfect every time. Bob L

[BigLakeBob]

Pictures aren't the best but hopefully you'll see what I use. This I made and is a knock off from what is in the HD manual. I have interchangable center bosses for different brake drums, and the end support is adjustable for the different diameter drums. I elaborated by adding the clamp, I feel this works alot better by sandwiching everything together for a even and true fit, then just the sprocket 'bouncing' around as you get started. I pressed a case hardened dowel into the support and then used a carbide ball end mill for the head radius, I did the same for my punches, just a long 3/8 dia. case hardened dowel with a radius created with a ball end mill. There is a step on the bottom of the fixture that mounts in a bench vise, that way as you beat down the units supports itself on the vise top. Bob AMCA#6738

[Robert Luland]

Bob, that is one sharp set up. I was just thinking that another piece on top of that with a hole as a fixed guide would be the thing for the average shop press. Bob L

[c.o.]

Bob, that is one sharp set up. Bob L

It sure is. You do some awesome stuff BigLakeBob!!!

[Sargehere]

Every time I hand-set rear sprocket rivets they worked loose, even using the "official Harley Tool."
Took some thousands of miles, but always worked loose.

Last times I replaced r. sprocket & dust ring, the very last time because chain and sprocket were plumb worn out, I put the air impact hammer to it. Never came loose again.

[BigLakeBob]

Bob, that is one sharp set up. I was just thinking that another piece on top of that with a hole as a fixed guide would be the thing for the average shop press. Bob L

Thanks, Bob, Working alone you need to create a third hand sometimes. I never thought about using a press instead of the hammer trick, so a concave punch in a press would work? I wasn't sure if a slow press would work the same as a quick hit like a machine would do. I just used a friend's saddlebag latch rivet tool, man did it work smooth!

It sure is. You do some awesome stuff BigLakeBob!!!

Thanks, Cory, I've gotta stop making so many tools and get some motorcycle work done!