Handle Bars Bending

[Will]

HI
Has any body had any experience with bending hanble bars, (on purpose as opposed to hitting something). Do I need to heat them or should I just force them cold? The bars are black so no issue with chrome
Thanks
W

[Robert Luland]

Thats a Tom Faber type of queastion. Leave a PM for him. I'm sure he will point ya in the right direction.

[Will]

Could you tell me how to get a hold of Tom Faber? ( user name)

[Ohio-Rider]

Tom is the hands down best for handlebars. Here's his site:
http://www.fabercycle.com/

[Chris Haynes]

Here is the factory tool for bending handlebars.

[billpedalino]

While it's ok to bend the handlebars cold (provided that the bend is not creased or otherwise very accute), the Engineer in me tells me to bend with heat for the following reasons:
1. Providing heat to a dark to medium red will allow the material to 'normalize' as you bend. This means that the steel will be stress-relieved as it slowly cools and will have a more consistant strength profile throughout the previously stressed area afterward
2. It will bend much easier! Also - no problem reverse-bending the bars where you anchor them, as could be the case when cold-bending...

[Will]

Thanks again, I'll have a go at it this weekend
W

[Rubone]

Harley-Davidson always said cold bending only. If they were kinked or broken they say no welding or heat. Replace them! The bars are heat treated and welding or heating destroys that.
If it is an Indian anything goes
Robbie

[fillibuster]

Harley-Davidson always said cold bending only. If they were kinked or broken they say no welding or heat. Replace them! The bars are heat treated and welding or heating destroys that.
If it is an Indian anything goes
Robbie

Yarocki, the Indian guru (harley guys have no gurus, do they?), has said "no heat", and the repair manuals for Indians also say the same, because they have "seamless steel tubing", and strength could be compromised.

However: ... I've heard too many times, from non-welders especially, that heat will weaken the steel, and have not heard a logical reasoning in metallurgical terms why this possibility exists. Granted, too much heat can allow changes is shape (of pipe especially) or dimension inconsistent with its original shape when moving it. But if you can cold-move and hold to a preferred shape, a little heat will, as Bill Pedalino implies, allow stress-relief, and it's convenient to have things relax into that position without springing back.
Wish I were familiar with steel processing, for instance with DOM pipe (drawn on mandrill). Were such materials quenched (I doubt it)? slow-cooled (doubt also)? or allowed natural air cooling? in winter or summer? Certainly, welding leaves stress points which must be slow-cooled for stress-relief where necessary, like when mating with cast steel which shrinks or gives less, but I have yet to hear a good argument for why steels lose their strength from a little heat treatment. Hope someone will oblige.

btw, Indian frames suffered from poor quality-control, insufficient welding/brazing, to be specific.

[Jerry Wieland]

My old neighborhood blacksmith said straighten them at the same temperature they were bent at. Use heat only as a last resort.

Jerry

[T. Cotten]

However: ... I've ... not heard a logical reasoning in metallurgical terms why this possibility exists.

btw, Indian frames suffered from poor quality-control, insufficient welding/brazing, to be specific.

Phil!
From my experiences with various makes of frames,
I would not condemn Indian frames for any insufficiency of speltering at all.

Its just that Schwinn and H-D frames were superior in their own ways.

The problem with applying heat to a tempered piece of hardware is that it loses its memory.
Working cold, it will want to go back to where it was stress-relieved by the last process. Often that was an oven.

That's as logical as I can make it,

...Cotten

[fillibuster]

Phil!
From my experiences with various makes of frames,
I would not condemn Indian frames for any insufficiency of speltering at all.

Its just that Schwinn and H-D frames were superior in their own ways.

The problem with applying heat to a tempered piece of hardware is that it loses its memory.
Working cold, it will want to go back to where it was stress-relieved by the last process. Often that was an oven.

That's as logical as I can make it,

...Cotten

key word there is "tempered". Were the bars tempered? after bending?
In tweaking my ss frames I built a fixture into which I pull/push the alignment joints, then bolt them up, then tweak some more, all cold. Once things are straight and plumb, with extra regard to the castings, I like to apply a little heat to the tubes that resist the alignment, til dull red, then let air cool. Once cool the frames un-bolt and stay there. I like to think that once heated, a tube cools in a relaxed state with symmetrical stress, that is, all areas of the circumference are comparable. I prefer to stay away from welded/brazed/speltered joints.

From my recent experiences with sport scout frames:
the forks in the 30's models had about 33% of top cross tube welded (gas/steel, I presume), and 66% of lower cross tube welded. My 40 and 41 had 100% of both tubes welded. The front frame sections were from 35, 36, 37 and 39 models, and again the 40 and 41 frames were far more thoroughly completed with the brazing/speltering. ... and another 40 frame in my shop has 1/2" holes in the castings that are not welded shut. I was told that some early 40 frames came out this way, in Chief and SS, and had failures. So I think that Indian dropped the ball a few times on their frames.

As to your Schwinn/Harley comparison, perhaps you are suggesting it is the design that made the difference more than the production line welding quality. I won't argue otherwise when regarding the keystone ss. Those joints are twice (if not more) as critical as in a full perimeter frame. .. so I'm asking, were weaknesses brought to bear by the design? or by the hot-doggers who had twice as many Harleys to spank as other Indians?!!

[fabercycle]

Allow me to dispell some misconceptions...

Factory HD handlebar material is garden variety 1018 electric seam welded tubing, and not heat treated.

ALL steel tubing has a welded seam......even DOM (drawn OVER mandrel)tubing. Don't believe that? Check with a steel supplier and find out for yourself. DOM is just a process that makes the tube ID more usable in it's raw state, and the seam is homoginized in the process. The only way a metal can be manufactured without a seam is extrusion, and you can't "extrude" steel like you can aluminum.

Straightening tube "should" be done cold when you can, but heating it (annealing) will only bring it down to it''s minimum yield strength, which is still 30,000 psi.

Yeild strength-The point at which a metal bends and will not return to its original shape

HDs crash bars WERE heat treated .......good luck straightening those.

[Paquette]

The master surfaces!!! Mr. Faber is , hands down the best in the business. So folks please take heed because he seldom speaks--Michael--6671

[fillibuster]

The master surfaces!!! Mr. Faber is , hands down the best in the business. So folks please take heed because he seldom speaks--Michael--6671

I shall hereby thank Mr Faber for his input: thank you sir!

(did I do that right?)