Sizing washers and nuts

[gallen]

Other than the back of the parts manual is there anyone that has the dimensions listed of nuts and washers for various part numbers? I know that some of the hardware is listed in the back of the parts books but not all of them. For instance, The two nuts that hold the brackets on the brake crossover shaft for the rear brake on a 47 knuckle?

[Rooster]

That nut is listed in my 1941-54 parts book, P/N 7863 - *7/16"-20 N.F. x 3/8" x 3/4" hexagon nut*

[Glenn]

I'd like to see some list that give all the lists of the nuts bolts, and washers for my 50 pan and also what plating is on each and which has the cp marking

[Chris Haynes]

I'd like to see some list that give all the lists of the nuts bolts, and washers for my 50 pan and also what plating is on each and which has the cp marking

Glen,
It is real simple.
If the bolt has a Harley-Davidson part number it will not have any head markings on it as it is machine made by the MoCo.
If is has a common hardware part number it will have the CP 1038 hot head markings on it.
All the sizes of the common hardware bolts are listed in the rear of the parts catalogue.
There is a spread sheet being complied that gives the description, plating, ETC of over 500 different parts. I'll let ya know when it is done and where you can get it. But it won't be soon.

[Glenn]

thanks chris

[Robert Luland]

Other than the back of the parts manual is there anyone that has the dimensions listed of nuts and washers for various part numbers? I know that some of the hardware is listed in the back of the parts books but not all of them. For instance, The two nuts that hold the brackets on the brake crossover shaft for the rear brake on a 47 knuckle?

Call Clete at Old Dude. 1-877-653-3833. He will get ya the right hardware asap.

[Glenn]

thanks Bob

i have most of the right stuff just have to start cad and parkerizing

[gallen]

Glen,
It is real simple.
If the bolt has a Harley-Davidson part number it will not have any head markings on it as it is machine made by the MoCo.
If is has a common hardware part number it will have the CP 1038 hot head markings on it.
All the sizes of the common hardware bolts are listed in the rear of the parts catalogue.
There is a spread sheet being complied that gives the description, plating, ETC of over 500 different parts. I'll let ya know when it is done and where you can get it. But it won't be soon.

Chris,
My parts manual for 1936-48 Big Twins shows the kicker pedal bolt, part number 2100-16 which is a MOCO part.
1949 and later has a hardware number. This means that the kicker pedal bolt that I bought for my Knuckle with the cp 1038 is wrong,it should have no markings at all? Please understand that I am learning about this knuckle and my questions may seem kind of simple but I want to get this as close as I can possibly afford. I hate to spend money on the wrong parts. Thanks, George Allen

[Chris Haynes]

Chris,
My parts manual for 1936-48 Big Twins shows the kicker pedal bolt, part number 2100-16 which is a MOCO part.
1949 and later has a hardware number. This means that the kicker pedal bolt that I bought for my Knuckle with the cp 1038 is wrong,it should have no markings at all? Please understand that I am learning about this knuckle and my questions may seem kind of simple but I want to get this as close as I can possibly afford. I hate to spend money on the wrong parts. Thanks, George Allen

It depends on what year your Knuck is. 1941 and earlier had a machined bolt and '42 and later had CP 1035. CP 1038 is Panhead era. I have seen original 1948's with a mixture of CP 1035 and 1038.

[gallen]

It depends on what year your Knuck is. 1941 and earlier had a machined bolt and '42 and later had CP 1035. CP 1038 is Panhead era. I have seen original 1948's with a mixture of CP 1035 and 1038.

This is where I'm having problems Chris. On page 485 of Bruce Palmers book it shows a 47 Knuckle with CP 1038 bolts on the rear brake lever bracket, so I,ve been scrounging 1038 bolts and paying premium prices (as everyone else does) and now I find that I'm suppose to have 1035 bolts on most of the Motorcycle. My Knuckle is a late 47. I have a 1970 Shovel police bike that we are working on and it has cp 1038 bolts on it in some places also. I thought they were done using them by this time? Thanks, George

[Chris Haynes]

George,
Imagine if you are working at the MoCo bolting the brake pedal on. You need more bolts and the man in the stock room gives you a box. You use them. The 1035 to 1038 change came in after the war. I am sure that during the changeover they switched back and forth as boxes were removed from the shelf. I suppose some ran out before others making a mix on the bikes. As I said earlier I have seen original 1948's with a mixture of stock. It like it happed on that Late 1947 Bruce pictured also. You did notice that he said "LATE 1947"? He also mentions that some 1035 bolts carried on til 1950.

[gallen]

George,
Imagine if you are working at the MoCo bolting the brake pedal on. You need more bolts and the man in the stock room gives you a box. You use them. The 1035 to 1038 change came in after the war. I am sure that during the changeover they switched back and forth as boxes were removed from the shelf. I suppose some ran out before others making a mix on the bikes. As I said earlier I have seen original 1948's with a mixture of stock. It like it happed on that Late 1947 Bruce pictured also. You did notice that he said "LATE 1947"? He also mentions that some 1035 bolts carried on til 1950.

Chris,
So,basically what you are saying with this late year Knuckle I could possibly have 1035 and 1038 bolts on my Knuckle and still be correct. In all reality they could have run out of 1035's. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!! It would have been a hell of a lot easier to do a 46. A buddy of mine owned this in the 70's and rode it as a chopper. This is why I'm sticking with this. I had a cherry 47 bullneck and found out it was wrong for my motor after having it fo 10 years. Luckily I found the correct frame 5 miles away.
Thanks for your help, George

[oldsouthmcy]

George,

Palmer was trying to convey that the 1038 bolt was available to HD by production of the late-1947 models but he did not mean nor did he state that it was a wholesale change-over. It was not.

My original late-1948 pan is almost 100% 1035. The only bolts not 1035 are the front motor mount bolts (1038) and the rear motor mount bolts (plain head). A friend's original 1949 is mostly 1038 with some 1035. I have an original 1951 45 that is all 1038 except the springer bar pinch bolts that are 1035 and I have an original 1952 that is all 1038.

Hardware is not like other parts where a change is cut and dry. 1947 OHV motors knucklehead, 1948 motors panhead, 1946 name plates tear drop, 1947 name plates speedball. Cut and dry, no question. Hardware is replenished as it runs out and it can be made in the factory's screw machine department if a vendor falls short or is late on delivery. The factory is not going to slow production if Chandler fails to deliver.

It is interesting that the late-1947 on page 485 has 1038 bolts where my late-1948 has 1035 (the same bolts are used on the foot clutch bracket and mine are 1035). It implies to me that the coarse thread 1038s were there on the assembly line and so too were the 1035s and the stocks overlapped. However, it is no indication that the fine thread 1038s were there.

An interesting side note on the 1948's hardware for anyone interested: the lock washers under the foot clutch bolts are internal tooth while the lock washer under the foot brake pedal bolts are split type.

On your kick pedal bolt and the part number indicating H-D made versus bought. What Chris stated "If the bolt has a Harley-Davidson part number it will not have any head markings on it as it is machine made by the MoCo. If is has a common hardware part number it will have the CP 1038 hot head markings on it.", is more of a guideline and not a hard rule. 2100-16 is an example of a bolt not following that guideline. For the 2100-16 bolt, my 1948 has 1035, my 1951 and my 1952 has 1038.

1038's on a 1970 Police Shovel, why not? I still have AMF era bags of NOS 1038 motor mount bolts. By that time H-D was relying on several vendors for hardware. Cost cutting and possibly Chandler had other large buyers to deal with and perhaps could no longer handle all of H-Ds needs. A similar example being a period in the 90's when getting aftermarket 5.00x16 rims was almost impossible because rim makers around the world were swamped with Detriot & Japan orders for automotive rims.

For the record, the 1949 part number for the kicker bolt is 2100-16. The part numbering system did not change until 1951 but it was a numbering change, not a part change.

Speaking of number system changes, how many are aware of H-Ds "Parts Initive" Program? Yes, it is happening again, H-D is changing their overall numbering system. Supposedly, the old 1951 number system will be left imbedded but no longer be assigned to new parts going forward. The new parts will be categorized by the first three digits. There will be no two numbers at the end to indicate what year the part was introduced. Actually, there will be no visible way to recognize when the part was introduced. There will be what is called an "attribute" section of the number that can be researched on a CD to describe when it was introduced and what it will cross-fit. Ah progress.

[bmh]

Speaking of number system changes, how many are aware of H-Ds "Parts Initive" Program? Yes, it is happening again, H-D is changing their overall numbering system. Supposedly, the old 1951 number system will be left imbedded but no longer be assigned to new parts going forward. The new parts will be categorized by the first three digits. There will be no two numbers at the end to indicate what year the part was introduced. Actually, there will be no visible way to recognize when the part was introduced. There will be what is called an "attribute" section of the number that can be researched on a CD to describe when it was introduced and what it will cross-fit. Ah progress.

The Factory has been trying to make it impossible to know what parts will swap between what years and models for at least the past decade or so. That is the reason they started publishing completely different parts manuals every year or two, so side by side comparison of assemblies is very difficult. This was not working well enough I guess for all the little attorneys in the liability dept. so now they are going with a new number system. I don't know how they intend to leave the old numbers embedded in the system as there will be a great deal of parts carried over from the previous years models using the old system and I really doubt any real usable cross fitment data will ever be published as this opens the door to product liability in a big way. Products can only be guaranteed to perform properly in applications that they were engineered for , and tested for in a certain configuration. Sadly that is the way it is in our society today. Soon the only thing we will be making in America will most likely be lawyers.