1947 tail light

[flat-happy]

i was stripping my two 47 tail light to get refinished today and noticed they were different. i thought all 47's had the guide on the outside of the housing just under the plate bracket. i know 47's have different hole spacing than the riveted ones but one has the guide and one doesn't but the hole spacing is wide on both. is one early and one late? one is going on the bike and one is going on the 47 sidecar. i figured i'd put the one with the guide rh 5 on it one the bike and the other one on the sidecar. neither one of the original straps has any writing and both have the same countersunk bolts and mechanical lock nuts. both lights have the guide on the inside of the casting too. all the time i see 47's restored with black and also with chrome housings. can you go either way or is the chrome one part of a chrome package? off topic but when i was in davenport i saw two 47's to be judged in the pavilion and one had the wire terminal on the right side of the lower horn bracket for the front fender light and one did not. both bikes had front fender lights. which was correct and does anyone know if the incorrect one lost points for it? thank you all for the help

[bmh]

I've noticed some are marked and some not. There are differences in the support rib on the back side also, though I can't say if that corresponds to them being marked GUIDE on the outside or not. Looks like at least three or four dies were used. As for finish, both were available. Black was standard and chrome was available in option groups and as an add on, Check a 47 order blank or the appendix in Palmers for that.

[flat-happy]

thank you brian

[Chris Haynes]

I have looked on my factory photos and found that the early 1947 had no GUIDE on it but the 1948 Prototype did.

[flat-happy]

wow i hadn't heard that before. did the 48 with the lettering have a removable strap? so maybe the smooth ones are early and the stamped ones are late? i thought that maybe it was the other way around because i looked at a couple of machines i did years ago when i used browns plating and the chrome is flaking just around the letters. i thought maybe the factory had the same problem and that was why the change. thanks chris

[bmh]

I've looked at my photo collection and none of the original 48 pans I've photographed seem to have the GUIDE mark on the outside. They do have the bolted on strap. I do not have any photos of 48's before the 8000 serial range. Bruce Palmer has stated in an earlier thread that all were marked untill mid 48, this could be correct. Quite a while back someone posted some very good pics detailing some of the differences in these tailight bodies, but I'll be damned if I can find them.

[bobdo]

Flathappy,
I was unaware of an OEM Tombstone tail light not having Guide markings, so I can't comment on that. But, I might contribute to your other inquiry. The Cleveland HD shop has a black '47 Knuckle with only a couple miles on it that I used as reference in building my bike.
Unfortunately, I found out it was assembled from NOS parts at the dealership & not the factory, so in my opinion its accuracy is questionable. Anyway, it had the wire terminal on the horn mount. I've found that this was a 1948 approach & '47 used the conduit protruding out through the fender under the springer. I must've had a '48 wide strap fender because it had no hole for the conduit. I publically admit to altering a '48 fender to a '47.
I hope no '48 Pan restorers start throwing rocks. -Bob

[Robert Luland]

Will look in shop tomorrow. Think I have a Factory 48 tail with orignal light. Bob L

[Chris Haynes]

Here is the 1948 Prototype.

[Robert Luland]

Well this is as far as I know is a 48 orignal. The Guide writing is there. Had to get that stuff to show up in a picture. Bob L

[Chris Haynes]

Here is the prototype. Photo taken in May 1946. No GUIDE.

Here is a later rivited lamp from 09/29/1948. A 1949 model. No GUIDE.

here is a 1951. Photo from 11/02/1950. No GUIDE.

[flat-happy]

well thank you all for the great photos and information. i hope it will help a lot of people. so i guess in summary it looks like the taillight with the guide on the outside possibly is 48 only? one thing that might confirm this is bob luland if you turn that tail section over is the wire loom a solid tube or serrated? the answer might solve the problem or make it more interesting because as far as i know 47 is solid and 48 serrated. it looks like the tail section has three barrels of the hinge on it which i believe is correct for 48 and 47 and earlier has two with the main fender having three. thanks again

[Robert Luland]

Flat I know where your going with this. The giveaway is the hinge. Three knuckles up. The 48 only fender is the last year of the three piece construction but the first year of the open wire way with the new hinge with three knuckles up instead of two. It also has the clip on the bottom for the wire spring. The one you see in the photos is a 48. Bob L

[flat-happy]

thank you bob---then if we can get the answer to one more question we can close this thread---do the judges concur with our findings? if so then a 47 should have no writing and have points deducted it it does and a 48 should have the writing and have points deducted if they do not. that seems to be the evidence supported by the great photos you and chris have posted. and i guess the lower horn bracket terminal is also 48 only? i think it might be a good time to print a book on each year showing what is correct and what the finish is for each part and each chrome group. i think they could be in paperback form to keep costs down or even on dvd only. books are obsolete now anyway. thanks to all

[Robert Luland]

Flat the photo below is of a orignal paint 48 I photographed at Oley earlier this year. There's your terminal. Funny. I was looking at this picture this morning for other reasons and spoted that terminal for the first time. Wierd! I took thirty pic of that sled and not one of the tail light. If it's at Jefferson it will be here. Bob L