1941 Bent frame

[knuckleheadtim]

I understand that the early springers are swept forward about 1/2" which is about one degree, but nowhere near 3 degrees difference.

I don't have an unmolested frame here to take an accurate measurement from, but on my frame jig, the 28, 29, and 30 degree marks are fairly evenly spaced. Given that the factory blueprint for the 30 degree neck show 30" 7', they weren't exactly on the degree mark.

Does anyone have the factory blueprint for an early Big Twin frame?

Tim

[CalBurn]

I have an early blueprint and it shows 25 degrees. The latest update on the print was March 1938.

[bmh]

So then early springers are not inline forks?

[Rubone]

Brian,
The stem is inline, the legs are slightly angled forward about 1 degree.
This was discussed sometime in the last year, perhaps before the forum change.
Robbie

[Jerry Wieland]

Steve. I have never seen a frame that I considered to be a 1940 with the bends. I just think that the bends in Flat-Happy's frame were more in line with what could have been achieved on a frame that was already fabricated. Now I am not saying it did not happen on a 1940 frame - just that I have never seen it. I do feel that if 1940 frames were ever bent, it was only on a very limited number of bikes.

Every 41 type bent frame that I have ever seen has evidence of a battery ground tab. Ground tabs did not exist on 1940 frames - they ran the ground wire to the oil line. This leads me to 1 of 2 conclusions. Either all these frames are 1941 or more likely that this bending was all done on a frame exchange basis which HD actively was doing in those days. Usually when a frame came back on an exchange it would have current updates applied - such as the addition of the ground tab.

I still think that even the simplified bending done on Flat-Happy's frame was not possible to be done accurately in most 1940 era HD shops and most certainly not with a maul and a block of wood.

Jerry

[Steve Little]

A few years ago I was struggling with this 25 degree issue. A freind "Pete Green" here in Australia supplied me with the attached drawing.
Hope it helps you with the identification of the Springers.
Regards Steve
Edit ...Sorry I cant load it up in single format I will have to add them as 3 pictures.

[Steve Little]

Sorry.; Cant load it up because it exceeds the size limit even when I reduce the picture to one of the spingers. 597 X 1403. I gotta get back to work and pay for my 2 weeks in the States.
I'll have another go tonight.

[flat-happy]

man this is very interesting----i sure hope it all gets sorted out. like i said the frame i have was almost a 4000 vin number and there is no evidence of a grounding tab on the frame. it does have the grounding tab on the oil line but the oil tank is 37 with banjo fittings and lines. the three rivet heads are still in the bracket for the tool box mount but the crossbar is missing. my frame look just like the black one in an earlier post and over the years i have seen at least a dozen that were bent just like this one and only about 4 or 5 that had the serious back bone bend in it. the backbone on mine has just a gentle swoop to it maybe 1/8 inch down and no dents as would be evidenced by hitting with a hammer. the tubing is pretty thin. if you need any better photos or measurements let me know and i'll try to get it back down off the shelf

[Steve Little]

Hi Flathappy.
On your rear axle carriers there are the part numbers eg XE-7 "which is the left axle carrier. There is also a Foundry mark and then "in this frames case" a single digit number. Can you tell me this number from both axle carriers?

Regards Steve

[Steve Little]

Finally worked out how to log this confounded picture. I got the camera and took a picture of it instead of scaning it.
If you click on the file it will enlarge for your screen
Regards Steve

[pete reeves]

Just to add more confusion to this subject. I have an unmolested frame with a ground tab and the early style head stock (foundry mark followed by 6), this frame is not bent ? My suspicion is that if the bike was sold for side car use or if the bike was supplied with 18 inch wheels the factory would have used up stock frames that had not been converted.
It’s possible that my frame could have been from a South African military U.
I have seen other 41 S.A. Military big twin flat heads with the same un-altered frame.

Pete Reeves 860

[flat-happy]

steve---i went over to the warehouse and looked at the axle plate on the right side and the last digit is a 2 i forgot you wanted the number from both sides. i cant see the left side without taking the frame down since there are three up there and a lot of other things as well. if you need the numbers i will have to get someone to help me get it down and all my buddies are in sturgis for the next couple of weeks. hope you can get what you need from this. also i saw a 6 just before the forging number

[knuckleheadtim]

First, I'd like to thank everyone for the input in this subject. Many of us have pondered the "bent" frame mystery for years, and this could be the most comprehensive and conclusive info ever compiled about it.

Steve: Thanks for the drawing. 1/2" at the end of the fork amounts to just over one degree, so that accounts for some of the discrepency. I'd still like to see the blueprint so I can compare it with the 29 and 30 degree ones.

Tim

[Steve Little]

Hi.
Tim.
I have posted the drawing as it was given to me by Pete Green who lives here in Australia.
He drew it for me some years ago.

I will bring a copy of the original frame Blueprint to the Davenport swap and would be willing to exchange a copy if anyone brings a copy of an original blueprint of any frame from 1941 to 1947 Big Twin.

I would like to get back on track with trying to get some clear definition on these 1941 "Bent Frames".

Points to clear up.
The owner of the frame at Wauseon said that these "Factory manufactured "Bent Frames" were also used in the late part of 1940. When I said that I had never heard this before, he said he was sure of it, but would check with some other guy who was at the swap.
We met later, to look at the frame in the back of his truck and he said that he had checked with his friend and that his friend knew for a fact that the "Bent Frames" were used in the late part of 1940.
I did not get to meet this other guy nor did I ask his name. I got the impression he was older than the guy I was talking to ....I know....I should have asked who he was talking to. But jet lag.... and, errr... and..... Alright I admit it... I failed.
Has anyone else ever heard of, or have proof that this Factory "Bent Frame" was used in the late stage of 1940. I am not refering to the dealer altered 1940 frames but more specifaclly to the frames fitted with the factory dogleg backbone.

As this is our AMCA web forum, is it possible to get AMCA judges to comment?

Second point.
Were they all fitted with the 1940 style rivited toolbox cross bar?
Even if we establish that they were all fitted with the "High" 3 hole toolbox bracket that did not have the 2 lower holes, and move from there.

Regards Steve Little
AMCA 1950

[flat-happy]

steve---please comment on the information in my previous post. as well as others reading this thread i would like to know why you asked for the number and what it means. thank you