Harley Davidson 21F Serial numbers.

[Mike21F]

Back again,
I've been a member for a few years but only reading a lot of posts. I haven't started to post until recently due to having to put my 21F restoration on ice. I've finally made a start after a lot of research. I put a few miles on my bike back in the mid 80s, but packed it away until recently due to family and work responsibilities. Retired now!
My bike is a 21F 61" magneto model that appears to never have acetylene lights fitted. The magneto 61" models were very popular here and in New Zealand at the time as electric lights were expensive and I suppose that Australian roads over 100 years ago were bad enough during daylight, but must have been real nightmare after dark dodging sheep, cattle, kangaroos and possums as well as Model T Fords and horse drawn wagons. It has a genuine period Harley left hand sidecar chassis with a contemporary local Goulding sidecar body. The HD bodies are very rare here due to heavy post WWI import tariffs designed to protect the local motor body industry.
My bike was spread all over a farm North of Sydney and was collected by a mechanic in the 1960s who stored for a few years. It was apparently used to power conveyer belt to bring sand from a creek to make concrete to build farm infrastructure and simple concrete items for local sale. All the unwanted parts were tossed in various sheds spread all over the farm and the mechanic took a while to find most of the major parts.
I went t back to the farm after I bought it from him in 1971 and managed to find most of the missing parts. It's mostly correct, I think, but it has the 1920 style front mudguard, which I've been told was common on bikes early model run built bikes exported to far away places like Australia and New Zealand. Apparently , the management liked to use up last years parts on bikes sent far away from the factory where it didn't really worry anyone.
I'm hoping that some of you more knowledgable HD people can confirm that my major components are correct.

The engine and frame numbers have the 21F prefix, the gearbox has a "J" prefix and all 3 serial numbers are between 2550 and 2690. The crankcase "Belly Numbers" are AAO367.
None of the numbers show any sign of alteration.
Would you think that these are all part of the original bike? I imagine that each engine assembler would stamp each engine number when he was building it on the bench from a list of numbers on his work list list for the day. Probably the same for the frame and gearbox. builders. The final assembler would most likely record all the numbers for each bike he built recording if it was a 21F, 21J, 21FD or 21JD on his tally sheet each day. I imagine that not many bikes would have "matching" serial numbers, but please corect me if I'm wrong.The sales department most likley gave the production maagers a list with the numbers of each model variant regularly. I found the photos in that great book, "Inside Harley Davidson" most iluminating. The factory photos of trolleys full of engines and large quantities of frames etc plus the single assembly benches with a partly built bike and its asembler hard at work producing another bike are very informative. I wonder how many engines, tanks wheels or complete bikes a worker had to build in a week to keep his bosses happy?
I am working on rebuilding the engine and wheels at the moment. Please check out my ealier posts regarding engine dimensions. Thanks for all your interesting posts!
Mike 21F

[exeric]

Welcome, Mike. Thanks for the history of your 21F as that always makes a bike more interesting. I wrote a response to your previous posts about replacing the conn rod races but I chose to delete it because I am not a motor rebuilder guy and I figured I would offend someone that actually knows how to properly rebuild conn rods. I hope you do get a response to your request as that kind of knowledge is always beneficial.

I speak for everyone when I say that you should post a picture of where you are at on the '21. 1915-1924 Fs & Js are my favorite Harley-Davidsons. Here is a picture of the 1920 F I had years ago, I would guess about 60% of it was from Australia but the missing 40% was the hard to find stuff and from all over the place. I loved that bike and hated to see it go.

20j-1.jpg

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Mike, my book on 1915-29 Pocket Valve Big Twins will have a lot more information for you. You can buy it at www.vlheaven.com.

[Mike21F]

Thanks Steve, for your recent help with colour matching information and the 2 Pocket Valve books that my friend Jock and I purchased fom you a while back. I am very impressed with the mountains of detailed information including your comments on HD using up last years parts on export models.

I don't suppose you would hazard a guess as to the amount of interference fit for my connecting rod roller bearing race insert rings? A local mechanic thought about 0.002" to 0.0025".
Does that sound close to you?

Many years ago, I was lucky enough to meet an elderly gentleman who, as a young man, worked for Bennett & Wood, a Sydney based company that was appointed as the New South Wales importer for Harley Davidson around 1915. He approached me at a vintage bike club display in the early 1970s and had a look at my 21F and said that it brought back a lot of fond memories. He remembered uncrating many similar Harleys during his time with B&W in the 1920s. Before he was promoted to the sales department, his job involved picking up the crated bikes and spare parts from the docks plus assembling and testing the new bikes. He told me that all the painted parts were wrapped in hessian (burlap) which he had to save for his mother for domestic projects and that pine crate timber was popular for fire kindling. He told me that he had a few scary moments on test rides. Apparently it took a while for the brake linings to "settle in" and the new tyres were a covered in some sort of wax. He recalled that a lot of companies still used horse drawn vehicles for local deliveries and that fresh horse droppings etc. were to be avoided when riding a new motorcycle, especially if the road was wet.
He was proud that he only had one test ride crash and that the bike only needed "a small touch up, here and there". His mother was displeased that she had to repair his new work pants!

I recall asking him about the 1920 style front mudguard on my '21 and he commented that that it often took a few shipments of the new models to arrive before variations in the fitted parts became more uniform. He also told me that some rural buyers didn't like the new front mudguards with the side panels because it was difficult to scrape out the mud build - up between the mudguard and the front tyre. He also remebered that a lot of people did not like the new dark green paint that was introduced with the next model after mine. He said the dark colour showed every speck of dirt and dust. He also said that the dark green paint accentuated any fine scratches and swirls in the shiny laquer coating the new paintwork. He was happy when it was discontinued after only 2 years. He remembers customers ordering new bikes, but not in the dark green colour.
He also said it was a bit strange that it was the same colour as the earlier sidecar chassis and springs and could never work out why they went to the trouble of painting the sidecar chassis parts a different colour to everything else. He then joked that maybe some drongo (idiot) had ordered too much dark green paint, so they decided that they would use it to save some money, because the motor trade went very quiet for a few years around 1921 to 1924.
I only wish that I had talked to more of these men who worked in the motorcycle industry in the period following WWI, but I was lucky enough to interact with a lot of older tradesman that were probably born between 1910 and 1940.

Mike.

[Mike21F]

Eric,
Thanks for your kind words. Sorry if this reply is out of sequence, but I couldn't locate your Post Reply tag.
Please see my reply to Steve Slocombe. A lot of my post was intended for you as well.

Your 1920 looks very similar to my 21F. The main difference is the saddle. Yours is a Troxel and mine has the Mesinger No. 1 with the cylindrical spring/damper washer covers and it appears never to have had the acetylene gas lights fitted. The exchange gas cylinders don't appear to have taken off here in AUS due to lack of exchange depots.
My bike is currently in a million separate parts, but I will have a dig and see if I can find some images.

Thanks also for thinking about my request in regard to the press fit specification for my connecting rod bearing race insert rings. I understand your concerns in regard to quoting a figure, but thank you again, as you are the first person to even mention it.
Even manufacturers and the supplier of these parts have not replied to my request for information. They must be very busy.

I would value your thoughts, purely hypothetical, of course.
The only information I have been able to obtain so far has been via Google AI and a local mechanic. Both quoted 0.002" to 0.0025" prees fit. I was hoping that someone with experience relating to vintage Harley Davidson crankshaft repairs may be able to comment on these numbers. Like most people, I am reluctant to quote figures unless I am very sure that I am correct, but surely there must be a fellow AMCA member or two on the Forum that have had sufficient experience to feel competent to make a comment. I have been repairing and building Solex 32PBI-2 carburetors for Series One Land Rovers for years and I am happy to pass on information to enthiasts. I am in my 70s and I am delighted to pass on my knowlege on to the upcoming generations of enthusiasts. This knowledge will be lost forever when I'm gone if I don't pass it forward now. I am grateful for the knowledge that I received from the elderly gentleman who worked for the Harley Davidson importer in the 1920's and many others during my 57 years as a motorcycle rider and my career in the motorcycle trade I can't help people if they want to know about a carb for a '29 Chevrolet or an A Model Ford, but if they want information regarding a Solex for an early Land Rover, or other subjects I feel confident in, to help, if I can. I look forward to any comments.

Mike21F

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Mike, I don't replace rod bushings myself but recall reading they are set very tight, maybe 4 thou interference. Get confirmation before doing the work.

And I've had 1948 and 1949 Land Rovers so would encourage you to document what you know on carburetors. With desktop publishing these low volume monographs can be put out there to benefit the next generation. My books are usually the only one on the subject, for good reason, but put the information out there for those following us.