Lifter arm roller rebuild

[Martin Pettingell]

I am restoring a 27 J. When I dismantled the engine one of things I found was that the rollers that run on the cam lobes were badly worn. In fact the whole roller arm mechanism was worn which was leading to slop in the valve train
Aside from ordering the lifter arm roller rebuild kit supplied by Competition Distributing I put this part of the project to one side while I dealt with some other issues with the engine bottom end. I did fire of an enquiry to the forum at the end of March to see if there was information out there. Dan came back with a useful insight on his experience in doing the job but there was little else I could find.
In the intervening period I picked up another set of roller arms (from a well known internet auction site). These were in much better shape than my originals. They were much tighter around the top bush that fits on the crank stud plate, there was little or no wear on the shoulder of each arm where the pins ride and although there was still a little lateral play in the rollers they were all very much better than my originals. Had I not already bought the rebuilt kit I might well have just fitted them as they were.
In the event I rebuilt the rollers using the better set of roller arms and I thought it would be useful to share the experience and add some images for clarity.
The first task is to remove the old roller. This involves grinding away the end of the old pin where it has been peened over to allow the pin to be knocked out with a punch.
That’s ok if you can identify the end of pin from the roller arm itself. The first image shows my old set in comparison with the newer one. It is just possible to see the edge of the peened pin in the old one, much easier in the other less worn one. Dan suggested using some ink to bring up the edge if it was indistinct.
I used a diamond bit dremel to carefully remove a ring of material around the top of the pin. I then used the punch supplied with the CD kit to try and drive the pin out. I found the punch hard to use and in particular to keep vertical over the pin and it soon bent. I substituted a pin punch from my toolbox with a similar diameter. This was a lot easier to hold and less dangerous for my fingers.
Perhaps because I did not remove enough material from the head I found the first pin tough to drive out. It took a number of very firm blows with a 4lb lump hammer onto the punch to shift it.
Once out I could see clearly the underlying structure of the roller arm. The second and third pictures show either side or the arm with the old pin and roller removed. You can see that the pin aperture has a shoulder in the opposite side to the roller which provides space for the peened pin to spread into. Once I could see this I was able to grind out the other three pins with more confidence and the pins were themselves easier to get out as a consequence.
Refitting the new rollers was comparatively straightforward. The fourth image shows the pin, roller and new bushing. The rollers are not all the same – the exhaust rollers being deeper with a longer pin. Be careful not to mix them up!
I found the new bushes were a good tight press fit onto the arm. In one case I had to warm it up before I could tap it home. The bushes were however just longer than the mounting stud, as they should be, to allow the pin to abut the bush and not pinch the roller.
The new rollers were in each case tight on their respective bush. I used one of the old bushes previously removed held tight on a bit of scrap steel bar to create a lap. I mounted the new rollers in the lathe chuck and gently lapped them with fine grinding paste. For final fitment I put some paste on the new bush and worked the roller by hand until they just spun freely. This was the most laborious part of the process but worthwhile to get the precise fit needed.
Finally the new pins were fitted. Again they were a nice tight press fit. I found the inlet roller pins a little short once fitted which meant that they became slightly concave when peened into place – since the picture was taken I have used a smaller diameter ball peen hammer just to spread the pin head thoroughly into the available space to make sure they were absolutely secure.
Final picture show the finished roller arms test fitted into the engine. They lined up perfectly with the cam lobes.
I hope this information and in particular the pictures will help somebody else looking to undertake the same job.
Martin
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Here is the last photo relating to my earlier post [above]

[DanM]

Nice Job Martin. Thanks for sharing. Sorry i wasnt clear on the countersink for the peen. I dont know what others do for this job, but i suggest getting some kits from comp dist before they stop making them.

[Jerry Wieland]

Good information Martin. Do you feel that the Competition Cycle components were of good quality and metallurgy. I have had a couple of times using their stuff that the metallurgy was lacking. Of course maybe they are the only supplier so it is them or nothing.

Jerry

[Steve Swan]

Good information Martin. Do you feel that the Competition Cycle components were of good quality and metallurgy. I have had a couple of times using their stuff that the metallurgy was lacking. Of course maybe they are the only supplier so it is them or nothing.

Jerry

Jerry, you raise an interesting and simply stated question that unfortunately is probably difficult to answer on a public forum in any sort of brief manner due to the nature of how to answer the question with any modicum of diplomacy. Or, maybe not so much; what do I know?

I am going to stick my neck out on what is perhaps delicate and potentially contentious discussion. A lot of people buy a lot of parts from Comp.D and rarely over a public forum do experiences surface as to the how Comp.D parts are working in their engines. Comp.D helps a lot of people; I certainly would not have been able to begin, much less finish my 27 project without the help of Comp.D. Andy was very helpful (and continues to be so) when I’ve talked with him on the phone and be email.

Being the type of fellow who likes to do as much of my own work as I can for both monetary reasons and because I like to learn and I have reasonably sound mechanical ability, I began looking for people who would kindly take the time to answer my questions before I started my project in 2013, and pretty much always was directed to Comp.D for my engine parts needs. I did talk to a couple fellows who were recognized as JD engine rebuilders, but when I started asking questions more specific to the engine rebuild, it became apparent, at least it seemed so to me that information was not forthcoming as where to source parts I needed for doing my own work. In terms of fellows who do engine rebuilding, the exception was and remains Jon Neuman who has always been helpful and in fact encouraged me to do my own engine work. At the time, for whatever the reason, I did not hear of George Hood, would have been nice to have learned of him, as I have heard people speak highly of his willingness to be helpful. The reason I am giving a bit of background is that during my early times beginning my project, people I talked to would offer admonitions to the use of Comp.D engine parts because of being to hard or too soft, but never comments of failures to specific parts. On the other hand, I can’t help but imagine there are Cannonball people who run Comp.D engine parts, but if there are problems with Comp.D parts, I’ve never heard of them and of course if there is a problem, I can understand those problems would be held quiet behind tightly sealed lips.

Anyway, back to your question. My ’27 engine is pretty much built using Comp.D parts bottom to top.I’ve got 200+ miles on it and no problems so far. The one glaring problem I had with their cylinder base studs, they were overly-hardened and after my first break in run, when I tightened the cyl.base nuts, one of the studs snapped at the base of the crankcase surface. (I know how much or how little feel is involved to tighten a nut on a stud). Without going into further detail, the story ended well.

On the one hand I am forever grateful for people like Lonnie Isam who make parts available to the general public for people like me who need the parts to continue my own work on my project. On the other hand, if there are problems with Comp.D parts, I have found it hasn’t done me any good to hear allusions to problems without knowing enough specific information for me to make a decision. A case in point is the recent advent of the availability of JIMS pins for doing bottom end work. JIMS pins were, to my knowledge unavailable in 2013-2014 when I was doing my engine work; now they are and what I have been hearing, and I quote, “Why would you use Comp.D pins when JIMS pins are available?” Considering my experience with cyl.base studs and that I am running Comp.D crank pins, I can only think it reasonable on my part to wonder if I am going to have lower end problems later down the road. All this being said, I certainly do not want to turn Martin’s thread on lifter arm rollers and pins into a contentious debate damaging to anyone. On the other hand, I think your question is a fair one and my curiosity is aroused as to your experience where you state “I have had a couple of times using their stuff that the metallurgy was lacking.”

Jerry, not to put you on the spot, but your comment can’t help but raise concern and if you are willing to provide specifics as to your experience whether by clarifying on a public forum or by “pm” there are probably others and including myself who would be appreciative of knowing details necessary to help in decisions people purchasing Comp.D parts to do their own engine work.

[duffeycycles]

I have seen extreme problems with some of Jim's parts.They were not very receptive to me when i tried to return a Velva Touch lifter set because one of the lifter bodies was .030 undersized.They would not believe me & were very rude about their "top notch quality"...Not the only jims parts & tools that did not work without remachining them

[sswaney]

I will only comment on my direct experience.
I’ve used a lot of aftermarket replacement parts over the years from many different suppliers. Colony, Eastern, Andrews, Jims etc. and I’m sure a lot of folks have experienced the same issues.
I’ve seen too hard, to soft, the wrong dimensions, the wrong angle or insufficient diameter on tapers, incorrect bore on hydraulic tappets and on and on. It happens.
But most of it has been good, yes occasionally something will turn up not quite right. It’s just a part of the deal. The sources for these items are varied. Some are made in the USA, some in Taiwan some else where but it’s the same issue regardless, how well was it made. Was the correct material used, was it hardened correctly or adequately? Are the dimensions correct? I have no idea how many Crank pins, for example, Jims produces at a time for the J & V Models. But I assume it’s done in batches. If someone gets the taper ground wrong, then the entire batch was possibly/probably done wrong. It doesn’t mean one source is better than another, sometimes it just means they got it wrong on a certain batch of parts. That said, once the batch is gone, the next batch may be made perfectly.
I do try to buy parts from suppliers that manufacture in this country but how does one really know? Just one more reason to attempt to use OEM whenever possible.

[Martin Pettingell]

I have just come back to this thread and have picked up on the comments generated. I cant really add much to my original observations about the fitment of the kit parts.

The proof of the pudding , as they say, will be in the way in which the engine runs and its durability and I'm a way of getting to that point as yet.

Much like Steve most of my bottom end has new CD parts - but they were fitted around a new set of flywheels supplied by Truett and Osborn. T&O did the work putting it all together and balancing the set up which just left me to fit the bottom end into the crank cases.

Martin