Cylinder (outside) Finishes

[Steve Swan]

i have opened this thread so we don't continue hijacking Jerry W's thread on cylinder bore coatings.

here is exeric's most recent post to the topic of cylinder finishes:

"The commercial application of electroless nickel plating didn't occur until after WW2.

Watts nickel plating is basic nickel electro-plating. I copied this from the internet:

The original Watts bath provides a matte unrefined gray pitted appearance. The addition of just a few additives provide a ductile bright finish. The function of all the components is as follows: The nickel sulfate provides the proper concentration of nickel ions. The nickel metal content determines the limiting current density for obtaining good deposits. The nickel chloride increases the anode corrosion; it produces harder deposits and increases bath conductivity which allows you to use a lower voltage. The boric acid acts as a buffer for pH control making a whiter smoother more ductile deposit.

In speaking with a plater, he said Watts nickel is rarely done without the addition of 'brighteners' as that is what all of their customers want.

Sorry, I should have started a new thread. I can repost this if a new thread would be useful.

Last edited by exeric; Today at 08:29 AM."

[Chris Haynes]

Great information. Thank you!

[exeric]

Thanks, Steve; I was just about to do that.

I have done both electroless, and electro-plating of nickel at home. Electroless is simple in comparison to electro plating. I have plated quite a few cylinders via electroless using the Caswell kits. I would not even attempt to electo-plate a cylinder using the Watts formula, even though the results would be more correct. Watts type nickel plating requires a good, and stable D.C. power source, numerous cleaning, neutralizing, and plating tanks, and the chemicals are deadly, not to mention responsible disposal. Also, electroless plating provides a consistent, uniform layer of nickel on every exposed surface, whereas electro plating will favor the most exposed surfaces, and often leaving the insides of fins virtually bare. I have always wondered how the manufacturers did such a good job of cylinder plating, and suspect they used custom formed anodes to get into those tight areas on a cylinder.

[Chris Haynes]

Is Watts Nickle a lost art?

[Steve Swan]

Great question, Chris! i did a quick google search "Watts nickle plating" and found this bit of interesting info - https://asterionstc.com/2013/10/watt...ickel-plating/

[T. Cotten]

Is Watts Nickle a lost art?

I have two Schebs on the bench that belong to a plater with a Watts tank.

I assured him that would be closest to the real thing.

He bling-trashed them anyway.

....Cotten
PS: Attached are carb pics showing the original "dull" or "flash" nickel upon un-polished castings.
Somewhere I have similar pics of Indian cylinders; The advantage of modern electroless processes is that it deposits between fins, whereas traditional electroplating deposits heaviest on extremities, which is undesireable for any machined hardware.

[exeric]

I've not tried this, but I wonder if an electroless finish could be textured to simulate a Watts finish by a gentle media blast, like walnut shells.

[T. Cotten]

I've not tried this, but I wonder if an electroless finish could be textured to simulate a Watts finish by a gentle media blast, like walnut shells.

Voila!

(Attached: Fickau Prototype Linkert bowlnuts in excellent bright electroless nickel.)

....Cotten

[RichO]

Electroless Nickle can be polished as it penetrates the metal surface instead of clinging to the surface like regular nickle plating. When I worked for the Army our plating shop only did electroless nickel because of military specs. My X and 101 were generously covered in the stuff. Some I left dull but other parts buffed up nicely.

[T. Cotten]

Dr. Sprocket!

The hardware in my previous pic wasn't polished, just bling to begin with.

All the hulls did was give it a little warmth.

....Cotten
PS: Folks,
I have tried to "patinate" modern plating in many ways, and it resists behaving in any way like the original.

[RichO]

Dear Mr. Cotton, At no time did I state you HAD polished your pieces. I believe I said I had buffed some of mine. It also matters if the pieces are blasted and left in that condition or polished BEFORE the process. As shown by yours.

[T. Cotten]

Dear Mr. Cotton, At no time did I state you HAD polished your pieces. I believe I said I had buffed some of mine. It also matters if the pieces are blasted and left in that condition or polished BEFORE the process. As shown by yours.

I didn't say you said I did, Dr. Sprocket!

My point was they were super bling without polishing.

Bright threads even. And the hulls barely touched it.

Far more durable than the real thing.

....Cotten

[duffeycycles]

Here is 2 postcards on ebay[not mine i wish]1915 HD J electric twin
When you zoom in,the cylinders look painted silver VS the intake,float bowl,etc looks nickle
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-Motorc...0AAOSwHWtbwljU
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-Motorc...UAAOSwZrJbwliF

[T. Cotten]

Duffey!

I smell 'bright' nickel on polished surfaces such as the carb bowl, and dull "flash" or "Watts" nickel on rough cast surfaces such as the cylinders.

I doubt either are accurately reproduced today: No demand.

....Cotten