control connection block and carburetor control rod question

[T. Cotten]

I'm only a student of these calamities, Tommo!

Most that cross my benches are walking dead.
Somehow they allowed themselves to be tortured souls long past their natural life, and then it is my task to resurrect fossils with graveyard scraps, or worse yet, some of the modern frankenhardware off of ebay.

What day is today, anyway?

....Cotten
PS: Folks, I've got eight of these things staring at me, and they keep me up at night; The nightmare is that I have to make a living at this.

[Rubone]

Tommo, just keep in mind the definition of "Expert", an Ex is a has been , and a spert (sic) is a drip under pressure....

[Tommo]

Tom,
I have to take you to task over your comment about Model H carbs.
To say they are "evil" is so far from being correct that it isn't funny.
A well overhauled and set up Model H will run just as good as any DLX.
I don't think it does anyone any good by introducing myths about things that later on get taken as facts.
Tom Cotton says a Model H Schebler is evil and he is a carb expert so it must be right.
I would be interested to know what you consider "evil" in regard to this model of carb because in my experience so long as you understand exactly how they work, they are a very good carburettor.

[Tommo]

Steve
If you want to discuss VL carbs lets start a new thread.
Threads on here get very confusing when the subject strays away from the original question.

[T. Cotten]

Thanks for another piece o' the puzzle, Tommo!

Confusing as it is...

It seems to me like another mystery as to why the H Model was used contemporarily with the superior DLX.
I have had about as many HX181s across my benches as DLX38s, and they are evil.

....Cotten

[Steve Slocombe]

I would say Tommo's list is contemporary with the 1928 Schebler overhaul manual, so is still no help for 1929/30. For a little more info, the 1930-40 Harley parts book shows five carburettor body part numbers. One, 1226-33A, is the 1" Linkert 1933 and up and another 1226-33 is the 1 1/4" Linkert 1933 models and up, which we know relatively well. 1226-30 is then described as 1930-38 45" twins and commercial, which must be a 1" unit. We are then left with two 1 1/4" bodies, 1226-28 being 1928 to first 1930, and 1226-30A described as die cast, later 1930-33 74" twins, DLD and RLD. I'm thinking 1226-28 being the brass Scheblers in the DLX 45-72 range, while 1226-30A is the pot metal Schebler DLX 80-92. So we know that brass Scheblers were used on 'first 1930' VLs. 30V8795C, a very original UK bike, had a DLX 80 fitted, so 'first 1930' must have finished before that. Unfortunately we don't know which number brass Scheblers were used on first 1930 VLs, but I'd guess DLX 58, 66 and 72 could be in there.

[Steve Swan]

Tommo, thank you very much for your replies. From what little i know, it seems the 29JD is a bit of a mystery when it comes to finding any written information about carb type fitted from factory. Your first hand observations on original unmolested 29's is great to know and certainly very strongly supports DLX 58's were fitted on 29JD models from the factory.

What i find interesting is you have seen DLX 58's on 27JD models. The literature i have seen says DLX 38's were fitted to '27 models.

Out of curiosity, was the DLX a special order carb or an option? did H carbs come standard or on what machines or specific applications were H carbs fitted? The reason i am asking, studying the pictures of my Dad's 27, his bike clearly has an H type carb. He bought the bike new with a sidecar. I don't know if the engine was a sidecar spec engine or if the sidecar was added to a non-sidecar spec engine. From what little i know, it seems the DLX was a better designed carb than the H carb?

attached is a picture of my Dad's with his '27, you can see fairly clearly the H carb on his bike.

Dad asleep on the road.jpgrotc lh.jpg

Also, this is off subject, but the boss the vin is stamped on, is this boss and vins painted over or is it bare aluminum? It "appears" in all the pictures i have seen, the boss is not painted? in the picture where my dad is standing in front of is bike, it's hard to tell if it's a reflection, but the vin boss "appears" bare aluminum....

[Tommo]

As a further complication to what carb is correct on which motorcycle study this Schebler list that was printed in late 28 or early 1929.
This matches manufacturers parts numbers to Schebler carb numbers and a DLX 58 is not even mentioned.
I've probably opened a horrible can of worms here but there's no use sitting on any information that will help to unravel the puzzle

[Tommo]

I've got two 1927 J's as well as a 1928 and 1929
With the exception of one 1927, which has a HX181 fitted they all have DLX 58's fitted.
There are two very original 1929 JDH's here in NZ and both are fitted with DLX 58 carbs.
So we have 3 J's and two JDH's all fitted with 58's but we have no JD's to add to the mix.
My 1929 J was owned by the Service Manager for the South Island HD importers from new and I am the second owner of this bike.
It is very original machine and Herb was a great one for not changing things so I'm pretty sure the DLX58 on it is the correct carb.
So my educated guess is that most if not all 1928 and 1929 HD J's, JD's and JDH's were fitted with DLX 58's

[T. Cotten]

Now we're getting into the fascinating subject of undocumented brass Scheblers used say 1929-31, and I'd appreciate fresh insights. The 1928 Schebler overhaul manual shows the DLX 45 used on the 1928 JD with the DLX 48 on the Police model JD. This list also shows the DLX 38 for 1927 and the DLX 53 for 1927 racing and hill climbing. Original mid-1930 VLs use the pot metal DLX 80, with contemporary Indians taking the pot metal DLX 77, 79 and 81. That leaves the brass DLX 58, 66 and 72 as the remaining ones most commonly seen, which by inference would have been used on the 1929 and early 1930 JD/VLs. These are all three bolt 1 1/4 inch units like the DLX 45s, which is the one I see most often. Would anyone like to step in with info on carburettors from original 1929/30 big twin Harleys?

Well Steve,

There is literature out there somewhere (as per Yarocki) that says that the potmetal productions started in June of '29 (I have had both bronze and potmetal Hen DLX76s across my benches.)

To further muddy the water (but ignoring 1" Models for now), there are unspecified bronze DLX61 and 67s out there. Mystery models abound.

Until a Schebler Rosetta Stone appears, we can only be forensic.
Logically, we must presume any '30 bronze Scheblers installed by H-D had to be left-over stock, used by convenience or cost advantage.

The factory was not as concerned about its legacy as we might be..., so the judges may never come to agreement with the fossil record.

....Cotten

[Steve Slocombe]

Now we're getting into the fascinating subject of undocumented brass Scheblers used say 1929-31, and I'd appreciate fresh insights. The 1928 Schebler overhaul manual shows the DLX 45 used on the 1928 JD with the DLX 48 on the Police model JD. This list also shows the DLX 38 for 1927 and the DLX 53 for 1927 racing and hill climbing. Original mid-1930 VLs use the pot metal DLX 80, with contemporary Indians taking the pot metal DLX 77, 79 and 81. That leaves the brass DLX 58, 66 and 72 as the remaining ones most commonly seen, which by inference would have been used on the 1929 and early 1930 JD/VLs. These are all three bolt 1 1/4 inch units like the DLX 45s, which is the one I see most often. Would anyone like to step in with info on carburettors from original 1929/30 big twin Harleys?

[Steve Swan]

Just for clarity, Folks!

I conserved what was sent to me, specs aside.

As Steve notes, the literature varies greatly upon what is "correct", and many existing DLXs are un-documented, so far...

"Correct" is an existential problem for the judges, not me.

....Cotten

Fully agreed Tom. The DLX55 you rebuilt was the only carb my buddy had and he knew it was most likely not the DLX model number for the 29 JD. He was just glad to have a carburetor to send you.

[Steve Swan]

Before I make an educated guess with regard what carb is right for what model we need to be very clear as to what bike we're talking about.
61" J model or a 74" JD.
All to often people ask questions regarding a J model but call them a JD.
This is not right and causes confusion.
Most but not all parts are common to both bikes so before I answer your question I wish to know exactly which model you are talking about.

I am referring specifically the JD models, 1929 in particular.

[T. Cotten]

...my buddy is using a DLX55, that Tom Cotten so masterfully rebuilt and conserved to JD specs...

Just for clarity, Folks!

I conserved what was sent to me, specs aside.

As Steve notes, the literature varies greatly upon what is "correct", and many existing DLXs are un-documented, so far...

"Correct" is an existential problem for the judges, not me.

....Cotten

[Tommo]

Before I make an educated guess with regard what carb is right for what model we need to be very clear as to what bike we're talking about.
61" J model or a 74" JD.
All to often people ask questions regarding a J model but call them a JD.
This is not right and causes confusion.
Most but not all parts are common to both bikes so before I answer your question I wish to know exactly which model you are talking about.