internal rear brake setup

[MMasa]

Steve
I have some of those setups but it's really just a reserve brake in the event that the main brakes fail. It has an extra pedal that faces rearward on the right footboard. It's a heel brake pedal that you actuate with the back of your foot. You would not be able to apply both at the same time unless your foot was about 18" long.
Eric is correct that the backing plate is different because of the added pivot and actuation points. The internal band assembly is the same as used on all 1915-1922 style brakes with the round backing plate. The heel brake pedal is the hardest part to find. I have some because many of my JD parts came from overseas where as Tommo stated, a secondary brake was mandated.
Mark Masa

[Steve Swan]

My 27 and chair has the internal/external rear brake set up and at road speeds will lock the rear wheel with either if you jump on them hard enough.
Quite a few English based countries required motorcycles to have two brakes so until the American motorcycle industry started fitting a front wheel brake the internal/external system is how they complied with some export requirements.
Set up properly they work just fine.
I still use nos HD linings but am getting very low on stocks so have no surplus.
Hard linings don't work, you need a fairly soft lining which does wear out pretty quickly but if you want a good brake that is the down side you have to put up with.
I'll photograph the setup on my 27 a.s.a.p. but please bear with me as I'm housebound at the moment with poor health.

Tommo, thank you so very much for your fine reply. i will appreciate pictures when you feel better. Trust all is well and again, thank you. from your description, it sounds like an external rear brake is what wold work best since i want to keep my bike as original as i can.

i wonder how difficult the rear brake set up is to find.

[Tommo]

My 27 and chair has the internal/external rear brake set up and at road speeds will lock the rear wheel with either if you jump on them hard enough.
Quite a few English based countries required motorcycles to have two brakes so until the American motorcycle industry started fitting a front wheel brake the internal/external system is how they complied with some export requirements.
Set up properly they work just fine.
I still use nos HD linings but am getting very low on stocks so have no surplus.
Hard linings don't work, you need a fairly soft lining which does wear out pretty quickly but if you want a good brake that is the down side you have to put up with.
I'll photograph the setup on my 27 a.s.a.p. but please bear with me as I'm housebound at the moment with poor health.

[Steve Swan]

My 1916J has the standard internal brake, and the import band brake. My experience with external band brakes is not favorable, unfortunately, on many '20s vintage bikes, that's all you had. On my '16, the band brake is barely a hill holder, and in no way a suitable primary brake. I know H-D, Indian, and Brand X improved the band brakes they used so they are better than earlier examples; but, everyone went to more efficient internal, expanding brakes by the 1930s. I was not aware that H-D offered an internal brake option in 1927, but I'm sure they did because it was required on export models. I would like to see a picture of the internal expanding brake assembly. I would assume a baking plate would be needed as there has to be a pivot post, and a brake cam to actuate the brake shoes (if it uses shoes). My '16 Harley, and '16 Excelsior use a, sort of, internal brake band but there is still a pivot, and cam. On all of my bikes that are equipped with both brakes; the internal brake works the best. . . Phew, that just kind of rambles on, sorry

Thanks Eric for your reply. "JD Brad" mentioned the internal set up and his mention jogged my memory of having heard conversation or perhaps having seen on on ebay. i cannot remember.

agreed, any use of the rear brake MUST be pre-meditated. braking cannot be considered a matter of fact that one can stop in time or any time wants to without before thinking and realizing one needs to brake when one wants to brake.

i guess the other question i have is this: has anyone used these type of repro brake linings ? Jiri Filipek out of Czechoslovakia sells them. i wonder if they stop any better. i bought a set of them, but have not tried them because i wanted to experience the original setup with the fiber/wire lining is bought from Johnny Sells.

enclosed is a picture of the brake bands taken from Jiri's site. his lining is a sort of tan and appear riveted on. the set i have which i seem to remember buying from him have a black bonded lining. i will take a picture of the ones i have. may be worth a try to install them, but first i would like to hear anyone's experience with these reproduction bands.h146-500x500.jpg

[exeric]

My 1916J has the standard internal brake, and the import band brake. My experience with external band brakes is not favorable, unfortunately, on many '20s vintage bikes, that's all you had. On my '16, the band brake is barely a hill holder, and in no way a suitable primary brake. I know H-D, Indian, and Brand X improved the band brakes they used so they are better than earlier examples; but, everyone went to more efficient internal, expanding brakes by the 1930s. I was not aware that H-D offered an internal brake option in 1927, but I'm sure they did because it was required on export models. I would like to see a picture of the internal expanding brake assembly. I would assume a backing plate would be needed as there has to be a pivot post, and a brake cam to actuate the brake shoes (if it uses shoes). My '16 Harley, and '16 Excelsior use a, sort of, internal brake band but there is still a pivot, and cam. On all of my bikes that are equipped with both brakes; the internal brake works the best. . . Phew, that just kind of rambles on, sorry

[Steve Swan]

i'm hoping anyone with experience using the internal rear brake accessory for the J/JD models can share if this internal setup adds any effectiveness to the braking power of the external band setup ?

i really want to keep my JD original and so while a front brake would be really nice i'd also like to consider the option of the possibility of using the internal setup if it actually improves braking power.

i don't know anything about the internal setup, other than it was an option, i am assuming for commercial use.... ? was the internal brake a USA feature ? or overseas only ?

Does anyone have pictures of the setup you could post ?