Schebler Carb ID

[MikeW]

Two Schebler carbs came with my 21F and 23F projects. I assumed both to be HX160s. One, which I have refurbished for the 21F restoration, is stamped HX160 on the top as per usual. The other has no stamping at all on the body but is otherwise externally identical - all moulding marks, manifold attachment method, and all fittings the same - with one exception that I have only recently spotted.

You can see in the photo that the carb stamped HX160 (the reconditioned, freshly plated carb) has the number H112 at the base of the main "stem". The unstamped carb (the dirty one) is marked H104. These numbers look like mouldings rather than stampings.

Can anyone explain the difference or significance of the numbers (H112/H104) and/or identify the carb without the HX160 stamping?

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[exeric]

Scheblers will, probably, forever keep many of their secrets. That casting number has to signify some pattern change. A very detailed examination will reveal some difference. Our hobby missed a great opportunity to quiz Maldwyn Jones while he was still alive. He was THE motorcycle man at Schebler and developed the carbs for all of the major motorcycle manufacturers. Fortunately, Jerry Hatfield did extensive interviews with Mr. Jones but I think Maldwyn Jones could have talked for a full year and still not covered everything he saw, did, and knew about early motorcycling.

[MikeW]

Nicely put Eric. From trawling through previous posts in search of enlightenment, both here and on other forums, it is apparent that the Schebler story has many twists and layers. And as the years go by it is less likely that we will find all the answers.

Like you I think that there must be some change signified by the casting number, ensuring that those assembling the Scheblers in the factory in 1920-something would put the right components together for the particular application. A friend suggested that the difference may even be internal.

I have no urgent need for the answer. As I have been putting together my 21F I am keeping an eye out for parts for my less complete 23F basket case, which, if nature gives me the years, will be the next restoration off the block,(having learnt some hard lessons on the 21). So my main interest is whether I need to spring the hard-earned cash for another "proper" HX160 if it comes within reach.

This little puzzle also echoes previous discussions about paint and saddles. In the hard times of the first quarter of last century, people made do; and local shops did rather more than hook the bike up to the diagnostic computer and replace the microprocessor. I'm sure that faulty carbs (and other items) would be disassembled, serviceable components re-used, and other parts replaced with what was to hand on the work bench . So there are likely to be hybrids around which are over 80 years old. How to tell them from the modern hybrids thrown together from odd parts by the quick buck brigade to off-load at the local swap meet is another challenge.

I understand too that because those looking for a "correct" restoration want the HX160 stamp, some originally unmarked bodies have been recently stamped?

[T. Cotten]

If its any enlightenment at all, Folks,

There are two similar HX 154s currently on my benches, presumeably produced right before the 160, with H149 on the bowlstem, as well as one un-stamped except for a tiny "B".
(I cannot even compare the two 154s, as one had been molested by the customer before it reached me.) Perhaps the bowlstem pattern number indicates a timely sequence, perhaps not.

Although I keep photo records of complete assemblies, there is no way to assure their authenticity, or even if they actually were all produced the same.
That would be a mythical ideal, as a great many were un-stamped because they were basically universally applied (other than there were at least three sizes, and even that is ignoring the different manifold attachments).

Anyone who re-stamps anything is a perpetrator.

And frankly, I think much the same about modern plating!

....Cotten
PS: (Presumed authentic HX160 stamps attached.)

[MikeW]

Thanks Tom. For the record I'm 100% confident that my HX160 is an original stamping. I know where it's been for the last 50 years. To add to your 3 examples of genuine stamping marks I've posted a couple of photos of my own part assembled carb. Note also the "F" stamped on the side.

Like you I have major concerns about modern stampings purporting to be original. The only objective has to be to deceive.

You may be surprised that I agree with you on the plating as well. I do my own and, when I made up the formula for the nickel salts which came with the kit, though I added fewer brighteners than recommended, it is still gives too bright a finish. However, the carb is slightly duller in reality than the photos show. Digital photographs often "punch" up colours and contrasts.

Based on reviews and testimonials my clear preference would have been to send it to you for a rebuild but I saw on the Forum that, after some bad customer experiences, you have limited your clientele to account holders. The bad guys affect more than themselves. If ever you "open the books" again, I'd love to get a PM!

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