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On Ebay, there is currently a fender for a 1916 J. It's a great looking fender but the seller makes a claim that I believe is incorrect. The seller states that the fender tip for a 1916 J fender is shorter than a 1917 fender tip. This is not true. I have both a '16 and '17 fender and the bolt-on fender tips are identical. Also, the parts book lists that fender tip part # for both years. I know this a nit pickin' post but sometimes information on Ebay turns into fact because everyone see's it.
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This is going to be a mission but here goes.
The 1916 Parts book lists EI-106 as the front fender for all 1916 models but when you look at the illustrations in the front of the book it is obvious that the front fender on the Model 16H is a totally different fender to the one fitted to all the rest of the 1916 models
There are three different rear fenders listed for the rear in 1916
EI-107 for the 16B and 16E models, EI-105 for the 16C and 16F and EI-105a for the 16J.
The next Parts book that I have is the 1912 to 1918 issue and if we start with the front fender we see EI106 for all 1916 models and EI106Z for all 1917 models. What the exact difference is I'm not aware but there were two fenders listed and 1918 had it's own one also as part number GI106Z.
As to the rears there are now only two listed for 1916, EI105 for the models 16C, 16F and 16J and EI107 for the models 16B and 16E.
FI105 is listed for all the 1917 three speed models and FI107 for the 17B and 17E models.
1918 had it's own fender GI105.
Now we come to the next Parts book that I have and this covers the period 1917 to 1923.
The front fender is now listed as JI106 and fits all models from 1917 to 1921 and now has as a mate GI106C which is described as "Flat Front Mudguard complete" for all models 1916 to 1921.
It appears as if the Harley engineers looked at all these mudguard variations somewhere between 1918 and 1923 and decided that as the later one would fit the earlier models lets delete all the variations of this fender and just supply one that will fit all.
This also goes for the rear as there is now only one listed for 1917 to 1921 models GI105. If we look back at the earlier listing we see this as a 1918 only fender but now have it fitting 1917 also.
As to the exact differences I have no idea but because I have original parts books that span a large period of time it is easy to see how Harley deleted and superseded parts in a bid to rationalize its inventory.
I hope this goes some way to pointing out that it is quite possible that this gentleman is quite correct in his description of the fender he is selling, I don't know for sure if he's right or wrong but I reckon we should give him the benefit of the doubt.
Tommo -
1916 / 1917 Rear Fender
I am the one who sold that fender on Ebay. A VERY nice piece.
With regard to the dispute on the 1917 rear fender, I can only offer the below photographic evidence as well as my personon views on the subject.
Below is a picture of a 1917 rear fender next to the 1916 rear fender on an unrestored 1916. As you can see the bolt on fender tip is quite a bit longer. The black 1917 fender attaches to the frame under the seat with two bolts whereas the 1916 is with three bolts. Also, the dimples on the 1917 fender are nowhere neer deep enough to fit between the pinched in top rear stays on the 1916 frame. Tommo is correct regarding the three different rear fenders for 1916 models. As he stated, one is for the model 16B and 16E. Both of these models have no three speed gearbox and use a different frame (with a pedal crank) I'm not personaly familiar with these models so I can't say what would require a different fender, but I have to assume it's something in the mounting since the frame is different from models with a three speed gearbox. One of the other two fenders is called out for a model 16F and a model 16C. These both have a three speed gearbox as well as magneto ignition. The last fender is for model 16J, an electric model. My guess is that this is where the difference lies in these last two. I assume that the fender for the 16J has the little dimpled holes at the front and rear for the tail light wire to be routed through. I would guess that the magneto models lacked this, but I can't say for sure as both 1916 rear fenders that I've ever seen, had the holes for the wire.
Thanks
Mark Masa
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1916 / 1917 Rear Fender
I am the one who sold that fender on Ebay. A VERY nice piece.
With regard to the dispute on the 1917 rear fender, I can only offer the below photographic evidence as well as my personon views on the subject.
Below is a picture of a 1917 rear fender next to the 1916 rear fender on an unrestored 1916. As you can see the bolt on fender tip is quite a bit longer. The black 1917 fender attaches to the frame under the seat with two bolts whereas the 1916 is with three bolts. Also, the dimples on the 1917 fender are nowhere neer deep enough to fit between the pinched in top rear stays on the 1916 frame. Tommo is correct regarding the three different rear fenders for 1916 models. As he stated, one is for the model 16B and 16E. Both of these models have no three speed gearbox and use a different frame (with a pedal crank) I'm not personaly familiar with these models so I can't say what would require a different fender, but I have to assume it's something in the mounting since the frame is different from models with a three speed gearbox. One of the other two fenders is called out for a model 16F and a model 16C. These both have a three speed gearbox as well as magneto ignition. The last fender is for model 16J, an electric model. My guess is that this is where the difference lies in these last two. I assume that the fender for the 16J has the little dimpled holes at the front and rear for the tail light wire to be routed through. I would guess that the magneto models lacked this, but I can't say for sure as both 1916 rear fenders that I've ever seen, had the holes for the wire.
Thanks
Mark Masa
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A picture is worth a thousand words. Nothing is carved in stone when it comes to old motorcycles. I based my opinion on the observation of only two fenders which are indeed 16 and 17 (due to the frame indents). I should know better than to make such a statement about any H-D, Indian, or Excelsior. Thanks for the education Mark.Comment
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Eric
There's also the posibility that it was a mid year change in 1917. They wouldn't change the part number of the fender tip if it would fit and work on the earlier fender.
BTW: I wouldn't restore that 1920. A bike can be restored again and again. It's only original once.
MarkComment
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