Nikasil replating on JD cylinders

[Jerry Wieland]

Anybody ever have nikasil plating done on JD cylinders. Curious how it would work on them.

Jerry

[Steve Swan]

interesting question, Jerry. Thanks and looking forward to replies.

[Chris Haynes]

JD cylinders were painted. Earlier models were plated.

[MMasa]

JD cylinder plating

I'm not sure if I agree with you on that Chris. (I'm actually very sure, lol)
I have J/JD cylinders for EVERY year that have remnants of Nickel plate. Even on the last style 1929 74" / parts replacement cylinders. It does tend to "burn" off from the heat but remnants usually remain around the relatively cool intake area. Attached is a picture of an un-molested early 1929 JDH that I recently acquired. It has a lower VIN so it does not have the mid-1929 cylinders. These cylinders have visible plating all the way to the base flange but it's especially good around the intake pockets.
Were they EVER available un-plated from the factory either later as parts counter items into the thirties on up or by special request? Perhaps, but I have never seen the paper evidence.
Mark Masa

[Jerry Wieland]

Chris Nikasil is a high wear resistance cylinder wall plating - not external decorative finish. The Japanese use it extensively on cylinder walls for long life.

Jerry

JD cylinders were painted. Earlier models were plated.

[Eric]

Because I found leftover nickel, I used chemical nickel on my cylinders. For 15 years it has not moved.

IMG_2489.jpg

[sswaney]

Hi Jerry
I know Dave Volnek is running it in the 13 Hendee he's riding in the Cannonbal.
I'd love to see it after 3500 miles. Judging from the sparce finning on the cylinders and heads I would think its running about as hot as a J.

[Steve Swan]

Hi Jerry
I know Dave Volnek is running it in the 13 Hendee he's riding in the Cannonbal.
I'd love to see it after 3500 miles. Judging from the sparce finning on the cylinders and heads I would think its running about as hot as a J.

given the cyl.wall only has splash lubrication and the factory set up was to make sure the cylinder wall/piston got oil (as well as valve stems/guides), i wonder if the Nikasil might let the oil "slip" off the wall in contrast to raw iron that might "hold" a little bit of oil so as to lube the rings. Of course, the purpose of Nikasil is to reduce friction, so my thought on the matter might be moot. the only other concern is if one's running a "dry" upper end, then any bit of lubrication can get to the valve stems/guides is another consideration. But, then, i guess that's why i run a little 2-cycle oil in the gasoline... it wold be nice to see posted guy's experience with the different cylinder/piston set ups they are running and hear how these set ups are working for them.

[sswaney]

" it wold be nice to see posted guy's experience with the different cylinder/piston set ups they are running and hear how these set ups are working for them."
I agree Steve, maybe a new thread though. Which section to place it?

[Steve Swan]

" it wold be nice to see posted guy's experience with the different cylinder/piston set ups they are running and hear how these set ups are working for them."
I agree Steve, maybe a new thread though. Which section to place it?

i would say either under JD or engine/transmission rebuilding. if it was in JD it might be easier to find since we would be discussing JD cylinders.

[Chris Haynes]

I'm not sure if I agree with you on that Chris. (I'm actually very sure, lol)
I have J/JD cylinders for EVERY year that have remnants of Nickel plate. Even on the last style 1929 74" / parts replacement cylinders. It does tend to "burn" off from the heat but remnants usually remain around the relatively cool intake area. Attached is a picture of an un-molested early 1929 JDH that I recently acquired. It has a lower VIN so it does not have the mid-1929 cylinders. These cylinders have visible plating all the way to the base flange but it's especially good around the intake pockets.
Were they EVER available un-plated from the factory either later as parts counter items into the thirties on up or by special request? Perhaps, but I have never seen the paper evidence.
Mark Masa

Mark,
With that being said I would like to see a Factory Photo of one with nickle cylinders. All the factory photos I have show painted cylinders. Look in the accessory catalogs and see the listing for cylinder paint. You really can't use a part that is 90+ year old because you don't know what has been done to it during its life.

[MMasa]

1927 Factory Engine Picture

Well here's a factory photo of a 1927 engine that clearly has Nickel plated cylinders.
I realize that a lot could have happened to an engine or a loose cylinder in close to 100 years but... Finding traces, or large amounts, of remaining nickel plate on a JD cylinder, including late model cylinders, is more the rule as opposed to the exception in my experience. The best place to look is around and under the base flange. This area is protected from exposure to the elements and the high heat above.
If anyone has a copy of Jerry Hatfield's "Inside Harley Davidson" you can also look at the picture on page 75 of the 1929 model year assembly line (in the factory).
The bikes being assembled are clearly J models and are definitely 1929's as evidenced by the dual headlights. On both of the front bikes in the line, right and the left, the cylinders are silver.
With regard to the accessory catalog having cylinder paint, perhaps it's primarily for singles and 45's. To the best of my knowledge, those models always had black painted cylinders.
It could also be used to paint your big twins cylinders after the Nickel started looking like crap.
Mark

[Steve Swan]

i realize we are seeking evidence from factory photo's of the finish applied to cylinders and while it is probably impossible to state with 100% surety what we believe to be an unmolested finish on a bike we believe original, i also believe there should be at last some credence given to what we think we are seeing on an unmolested bike.

attached is a pic of reasonably original 26 with what appears could be said to be nickle plate at the base of the rear cylinder - 26jd primary.jpg

attached is a pic of a reasonably original 28 again with what appears could be said to be nickle plate at the right and left bases of front and rear cylinders - $T2eC16ZHJHcFFkYgGdv1BSZsc0nfR!~~60_57.JPG DSCN3210.JPG

attached is a period photograph of an intact '26 with bright cylinders, now of course anyone can contest is it paint or is it plate - s-l1600.jpg

attached is a factory photograph of a 27FD engine, the finish on the cylinders has the same hue as other small parts we know were nickle plated - 27FD engine.jpg

i also have to say, although i have held only a few original cylinders in my hands in what i believe original condition, i have seen what certainly appears nickle plate flaking from the cylinder at and above its base where high temps have not burned off the last remnants of the plate.

The problem i see with going by a factory picture alone, is how does one KNOW the finish is paint anymore than one KNOWS the finish is nickle plate? myself, i think there is more evidence in existing original cylinders, factory pictures and information passed down by old timers that cylinders were nickle plated.

as one examines the color pictures of the original 26 and 28, one can see the remnants of nickle on various small parts, e.g, shift lever, we know were nickle plated from the factory; the finishes on these small parts appear same hue and color as the finish seen on cyl.bases.

[T. Cotten]

And "Watts" nickel is different from "bright", Steve!

Like the top of Schebler Hs that are dull but the bowl and screw hardware is bright.

Today's processes are obvious.

....Cotten
PS: And the Parkerized manifold in Mark's pic was Parkerized back when Parkerizing was Parkerizing.

[moldthread]

Hi Jerry,
This thread seems to have been hijacked by people talking about plating the outside of the cylinders instead of the inside and don't know what nikasil is.
We have been plating KR & WR cylinders for racing for several years on cylinders that have been bored to max.
We have had it built up to .040 thick however they don't like to do more than .020/ side.
Advantages over sleeving are no decrease in cylinder strength and better heat transfer.
The nikasil also has an affinity for oil as opposed the the earlier chrome plating.
The nikasil is guranteed against wear for life and seems more slippery than a cast iron bore.
The 2 major companies are both in WI. US Chrome & Millenium.
It has been used on MotoGuzi for over 15 years, XR 750, most Japanese bikes, & many cars.
I would not hesitate to do it.