1932 VL Won't go into 2nd

[loch]

Hi Guys,

As the saga continues, update: rebuild completed, plugs, and points gapped, timing set. Starts first or second every time. Idles nicely. Ready for a road test.

Oops! Can't get into to shift into second gear. Just testing the shifter with the machine not running. Rocking back and forth and working the clutch pedal doesn't seem to work. Is it possible I messed up something when I reassembled the transmission?

It will go into First Gear no problem. When I engage the clutch I can feel the transmission engaged. Disengage the clutch and try to go to second while rocking the bike doesn't work.

Any ideas? Things to check? Or am relegated to opening up the transmission again?

Thanks!
Loch

[Jerry Wieland]

I would not tear into the transmission until I had run the engine. Sometimes transmissions do not shift easily when the shaft are not turning.

Jerry

[1939wl]

Hello loch,
I have rebuilt many VL transmissions over the years and for the most part they are rock solid gearboxes. Check your clutch adjustment, and make sure that your clutch discs are not bent/warped, and you are getting a full release. Check all of your clutch springs for even pressure. On older clutches I usually put each spring on the bench and check free length, and then check the pressure on a Rimac tester at a given compressed height. You can get an approximate compressed height to use, by measuring the distance from your pressure plate to the top of the spring when the clutch is engaged, before you pull the springs out. I have seen this many times on old used springs and bent/ warped discs will do it too. That actual compressed height is not that important, just that you check each spring at the same height and compare psi. Over 10% variation, and that spring(s) needs to be replaced. The VL linkage and gear positioning fingers are also very solid, but any free play in the bushings from the shifter to the transmission top, including the selector fingers that lock the gear in place on the trans top could also be giving you grief. When everything is right, and adjusted correctly, that transmission will have a very sure feel when you shift it. It may be that one or two clutch springs are adjusted one or two turns more, so the clutch won't release evenly.
Any machine shop that rebuilds heads will have a Rimac tester or equivalent, it's a quick check. After exhausting these checks, then, it may be internal to the transmission. They are a good transmission, but also have their fair share of issues. The positive shift linkage and finger stops on the trans top, usually act as safety devices to keep from bending forks etc internally..... that is discussion for a later time. Hopefully a linkage bushing check/adjustment and a clutch inspection/adjustment will get you on the road quickly.
Hope that helps.

[loch]

Thanks '39wl! Looks like I've got some things to check. Finding a local shop with a Rimac tester is first on the list. The nice thing about doing about 90% of the rebuild myself is that I know exactly what I need to do now, with your advice.

- Loch

[Steve Slocombe]

The VLs have a crash gearbox so don't always shift without the engine running. Before doing more work I'd start up the bike on the rear stand and then see if it shifts through the gears.

[knucklehead 61]

typically you need the bike on the rear stand so you can rotate the rear wheel while shifting to get a 15-36 trans to go into all 3 gears.

[loch]

Before doing more work I'd start up the bike on the rear stand and then see if it shifts through the gears.

Did this today. Same same, shifts to first, engages rear tire, no unusual noises. Played with the clutch adjusting nut as well. Did not make any difference. I mean I did adjust it to the point that when releasing the clutch, it failed to grab when in low. Adjusted it back out to where it grabbed again. Still won't go into second. Barring any other wisdom, I will take it on the road tomorrow to see if I can get it into second. Worst case, I turn around at the first corner and limp home in low.

[loch]

Updates:

Thanks everyone for your input! I considered all of the great advice and then spent an afternoon in congress with the machine. First some troubleshooting wisdom I learned along the way. Break the problem down to it's simplest form, see what works what doesn't work and then build it back up from there, testing each phase as you go along. Most of you probably already practice this, I know I do. But sometimes I need to remind myself of my own skill because it's easy to get caught in the menagerie of the problem. Here's what I found.

1. With the shifter shaft and lever and connecting rod all disconnected or removed, I was able to shift through all gears using the box end of 7/8" wrench on the nut on the top of the gear box.
2. With the shifter shaft reinstalled and properly secured with the frame bracket I used a 3/8" (or maybe a 7/16" - I don't remember) applied to the flats where the short shifter lever is attached. I was able to shift through all gears.
3. With the entire linkage reassemble I could only shift to low and possibly to 2nd. Definitely not to 3rd.

The final test failure results from the rear end of the connecting rod contacting the rear cylinder head (see pic below, the shift lever is almost in the 2nd gear detent).

I assess that something is not correctly installed. Maybe the shifter shaft needs to be rotated counter clockwise when mounting it to the nut at the top of the gear box. This would rotate the short shifter shaft counter clockwise and give the clearance necessary for the rear end of the connecting rod to put the gear box into high gear.

Any comments or suggestions, or points that missed are appreciated.

Thanks,
Loch

IMG_7293.jpg

[Peter Cooke]

Make sure that, when in neutral, there is a point of the 7/8" hex on top of the gearbox pointing forward and not a flat. If you have a flat you may have linkage issues that stop you selecting all gears.


Neutral.JPG

[Steve Slocombe]

That's great advice from Peter that baffled me in the early days. You need to pull the gearbox top cover to fix it. In addition there are early and late horizontal shifter rods, not identical, and then not always accurately reproduced, so maybe needing a tweak. Having the rod clevis foul the read head is the usual sign that something is not right.

[loch]

Excellent advice Peter! Thanks.

Steve, if there is a flat facing forward then what kind of linkage issues could it be? The hex on top of the gear box is connected to the shift fork on the underside of the cover? If I remember correctly .

In addition there are early and late horizontal shifter rods, not identical, and then not always accurately reproduced

I compared the shifter rod to the one in the parts manual. It's very difficult to tell I have the correct rod. To be sure we're talking about the rod linkage from the bottom of the shift lever and the short shift lever (at the top of the shifter shaft). The picture I posted shows the rear end of the shift rod hitting the rear cylinder.

The manual shows 2212-30 as the one for the 1930-33 74" models.

Loch

[loch]

Thanks for the help with this issue guys!

It appears from the photo that I do indeed have a flat facing forward. I guess I'm getting into the gearbox next weekend.

The photo is from the left side of the machine. Flats aren't facing directly fore and aft but close enough that it's clearly not the points. In Peter's picture I can see the flats align obviously with the legs of the V. That is not the case with my gearbox.

Loch

IMG_7294.jpg

[Peter Cooke]

I found some better pics. Here's what you need to end up with when in the neutral position.

IMAG0261.jpg IMAG0260.jpg

[loch]

Thanks for the pics, Peter! I remember when working on the gearbox last winter I tried to remove the top hex nut. Couldn't without a great amount of force so I didn't worry about it since it seemed to not have any lateral play. Now I see I'll need to make the effort. This information is invaluable. I'm also talking with Tom and Replicant Metals about it. He says the same thing regarding the obscurity of the fix and of the issue itself. Seems like something that should have made it into some publication.

But alas! It is in Steve's book! I guess I should have read it more closely. Thanks Steve, and my apologies for not reading more closely.

Nevertheless, the pics are still invaluable for understanding the problem completely. Because now that I've seen the pics the sentence in Steve's book makes absolute sense.

Loch