Lacing troubles '32 VL

[loch]

Dear Buster, you may be lacing the wheels incorrectly. Here's the procedure from my VL Restoration Book, courtesy of my pals at Harbor Vintage:

"Wheel Lacing Procedure

The 40 VL spokes consist of twenty with a spoke angle of about 75 degrees, and 20 with an angle of about 95 degrees.

1. With the splined end or brake side of the wheel hub facing up, place the hub in the center of the rim on a work bench or other suitable surface. Position the rim so that the valve stem hole is at the six o'clock position, with the alemite grease fitting on the hub at twelve o'clock.

2. Starting with ten of the 75 degree head angle spokes, insert them into the countersunk holes on the outside of the hub, so that the head of the spoke is visible from the outside of the hub when fully inserted. Starting with the spoke at the six o'clock position in the hub, swing it in a counterclockwise direction. Using the valve stem hole as reference, count eight spoke holes in the rim and insert the spoke (approximately between the 3 and 4 o'clock position on the rim ). Continue this procedure, inserting the spokes every fourth hole on the upper portion of the rim, and just starting the spoke nipples so that the threads catch.

3. Turn over the rim, so that the bearing retainer side of the hub is facing up. Repeat the procedure using the other ten 75 degree spokes. They are also swung in a counterclockwise direction.

4. Insert ten of the 95 degree angled spokes through the inside of the hub, so that the heads of the spokes are visible from the inside of the hub. Using the valve stem hole as a reference, swing the spokes in a clockwise direction seven holes to approximately the 8 o'clock position. As before, start the nipples onto the spoke threads.

5. Turn the wheel over again, spline side up, and insert the remaining ten 95 degree angled spokes through the inside of the hub. Swing them in a clockwise direction and start the spoke nipples. The wheel should be ready for truing.

Note that lacing the wheels with the grease fitting 180 degrees away from the tire inflator is not mentioned in Harley literature before the 1947 Shop Manual. Original VL wheels are more or less random, with some bias towards having the inflator and hub grease fitting 90 degrees apart. Military nos 18" wheels seem random."

Yes the 19" wheels are about 20" across, and the 18" rims about 19" across, which gives room for confusion. It always helps to have another wheel there so you can copy the pattern.

When truing the wheel, don't forget to adjust the offset correctly. With the wheel lying flat on the floor with the splines facing upwards, a long straightedge placed across the splines should clear the rim by about 1/16" or 2 mm either side. Best regards.

I'm following Steve's instructions to the letter, with Buchanan ss spokes and nipples. After installing all 75 degree spokes and the first half of the 95 degree spokes I end up with a rim that is elevated off the work bench about 2 inches, and no reasonable way of getting the remaining 95 degree spokes installed (after flipping the wheel a second time).

What am I doing wrong?

I will also add that it lays flat and centered after installing all of the 75 degree spokes.

Spokes1.jpg

Spokes2.jpg

[Steve Slocombe]

Your wheel looks like it's heading towards the picture on page 18-2 of my restoration book, so should be OK so far. I'd say you need to loosen the nipples considerably so that you can get the last spokes installed.

[loch]

I'd say you need to loosen the nipples considerably so that you can get the last spokes installed.

Thanks Steve,

I wish that were the case. The nipples are about as loose as they can be without falling off. It seems that in order to get the last set of 95 degree angle spokes installed I need to press the hub down in order to get the spokes installed. Then there will be considerable bend in the spokes.

[Steve Slocombe]

I put my wheels out for lacing since scratching a rim, so I'm running out of ideas. Are the spoke heads in the countersinking? There is some ambiguity around inside and outside, so a final shot would be to reverse the spokes.

[loch]

Thanks Steve!

Funny you should say that

reverse the spokes

. I did exactly that on Saturday. It went together without any issues at all. My thought was that translations even between American English and Queen's English can present differences in how we perceive things. Of course I'm assuming you're native to the UK. Nevertheless, the assembly was effortless. I was concerned that many of the spokes were well past the end of the nipple. But after seeing some other pictures on here I am less concerned about that result.

The idea that there's a translation/misunderstanding of the instructions is not really valid. I considered your explanation of the how the heads of the 75 degree spokes would be visible from the outside of the hub. This is explicit enough.

All said and done, I'm leaning toward sending the rims out for proper assembly. As much as I would like to do it myself I would like it to be correctly even more.

A last note, careful inspection of the old spokes and the new ones revealed the heads on the old painted steel spokes are smaller than the new spokes and the angles are not exactly the same. The steel spokes are of lighter, thinner construction overall.