1940 UL or US (?) 74 cu in engine

[gras]

Greetings & salutations!
In nutshell: bought a 1940 Harley UL/US (?) while back & finally am going to transfer the title to PA from IL since am retired now & ready to ride. Title is as an UL. Been told by more experienced oldtimers has to be a civilianized Navy model US because it has original sidecar front & rear mounting on the frame & 3 speed with reverse slot on tank shifter. Been researching on internet as well as asking @ swap meets about where can find this info to no avail. Seems that no one has ever heard, seen or are familiar with this Navy model designation US. Need anyone with any info on this
Thanks and appreciate ur time!
aerozak
PST...tried emailing HD in Milwaukee and no reply. Also told by seller that engine and some parts are from '39/'40 UL so the VIN number reflects this.

[T. Cotten]

Welcome to the Forum, Aerozak!

I have no answer, only questions of my own:
Does it have an M65 Linkert carburetor installed?

If so, does it have an adjustable 'power' needle, or a plug over it?

Thanks in advance,..

....Cotten
PS: I have encountered Navy 'blue' paint upon return oil pumps, which may be a clue if it survives upon yours.

[Rubone]

aerozak,

You will not find any info on the US simply because the "S" itself was not stamped in the number, it merely meant sidecar equipped from the factory. And any UL could be ordered with a sidecar or a sidecar could be added, along with a 3 speed or 3speed with reverse. None of those features make it one over the other. The model designation on Big Twin Flatheads for 1940 were U or UL (74 cu in) or UH, ULH (80 cubic inch) with a special for that year only UA for the US Army. If ordered with a sidecar the "S" was added on the order form but never stamped into the engine with an exception being some '36 and '37 models. And the Navy wasn't using U models in 1940, they started using some in '41.
Does the number on the title match the engine number?
What are the numbers on the bottom of the cases? Do they match?

Here is a picture of my 44 UL w/sidecar and 3&R gearbox.

[Steve Slocombe]

I agree with Robbie that USMC did not buy motorcycles before 1941, and the S was very rarely stamped in the engine number. Check your engine and belly numbers. A U or US model would have the engine number format 40U1234 and a UL would be in the style 40UL1234. Both are 74 cubic inch flatheads, with the only differences the compression ratio and the number of teeth on the drive sprocket. There are plenty of members on this forum who can tell you if the numbers are factory original. Belly numbers would preferably match on left and right crankcases, and have the form 40-1234 but often a couple of hundred away from the engine number because of intermediate stock holding at the factory.

Take local advice on the title transfer, as if the old title says UL and your engine number is U, you don't want to have it queried.

[gras]

Hello T. Cotten.

Pleasure to be here!
So keep in mind that the seller thought it was a US model because of the reverse on the tank shifter & it has the front & rear sidecar mounting points on the frame. Where the confusion about this is that it was rebuilt with about 70% original &/or NOS of mixed '39/40' parts & engine casing VIN # is 40UL2934. As to ur question, the carb is stamped M51. I appreciate ur help but as i'm not going to show it or use it as art deco in my penthouse, but ride it , I'm not overly concerned about it just was curious (will leave it as previous titled UL).
Thank u kindly,
watch ur six,
aerozak

[gras]

Hello Steve:
Thank u so much for ur thoughtfull reply. Mentioned in reply to another member that seller thought it was a US model because of the reverse on the tank shifter & it has the front & rear sidecar mounting points on the frame. Where the confusion about this is that it was rebuilt with about 70% original &/or NOS of mixed '39/40' parts & replacement engine casing VIN # is 40UL2934 & I'll leave it @ that.
I appreciate ur help but since my intention is ride it & enjoy, I'm not overly concerned about it just was curious (will leave it as previous titled UL).
Ur help is much appreciated.
Live to ride!
Ride to live!
Watch ur six,
aerozak

[gras]

1940 UL or US (?) 74 cu in engine

Hello Rubone:
VVVVEEEEERRRRRYYYY NICE PHOTO!!!
Was just curious about all that noise from others about what it actually was/is.@ this point to me it's irrelevant...since my goal is just ride it & enjoy. BUT I will be looking for a sidecar to pair it up. I appreciate u & everyone helping me with ur knowledge since I'm basically FNG with this much bigger model (rode 45 years on '41 WL & '42 OD color WLA only...when figure out how post photos...not a MOU [master/mistress of universe]...will post them ). Will just keep it as UL titled when bought it.
Live to ride!
Ride to live!
Watch ur six,
aerozak

[T. Cotten]

Hello T. Cotten.

Pleasure to be here!
So keep in mind that the seller thought it was a US model because of the reverse on the tank shifter & it has the front & rear sidecar mounting points on the frame. Where the confusion about this is that it was rebuilt with about 70% original &/or NOS of mixed '39/40' parts & engine casing VIN # is 40UL2934. As to ur question, the carb is stamped M51. I appreciate ur help but as i'm not going to show it or use it as art deco in my penthouse, but ride it , I'm not overly concerned about it just was curious (will leave it as previous titled UL).
Thank u kindly,
watch ur six,
aerozak

I appreciate your reply as well, Aerozak,..

But my question had little (or nothing) to do with AMCA judging!
Military models were often unique, so an M51 goes well with your 'civilianized' machine.

But since Palmer's listed the M65 for '40 UA, and I have one on the bench, I was hoping for any clues at all if it was produced with a fixed jet.
(Similar military models, such as the later M54 and 54B had jets, but the 'fossil record' turns up opposite specs from that cited in literature. One source even listed the M54 as a 1" Model, so I ask any questions I can, when I can.)

Thanks again,


....Cotten

[41craig]

I appreciate your reply as well, Aerozak,..

But my question had little (or nothing) to do with AMCA judging!
Military models were often unique, so an M51 goes well with your 'civilianized' machine.

But since Palmer's listed the M65 for '40 UA, and I have one on the bench, I was hoping for any clues at all if it was produced with a fixed jet.
(Similar military models, such as the later M54 and 54B had jets, but the 'fossil record' turns up opposite specs from that cited in literature. One source even listed the M54 as a 1" Model, so I ask any questions I can, when I can.)

Thanks again,


....Cotten

Cotten; A friend of mine has an NOS UA motor. It has the M-65 carb. attached with a block off plate on it from the factory. It has a plug on the power side.
Craig

[T. Cotten]

It would be great to know the jet # someday, Craig!

Could be a #4, or a #11, or ?

What's a 'block off plate'?

Thanks!

....Cotten

[41craig]

It would be great to know the jet # someday, Craig!

Could be a #4, or a #11, or ?

What's a 'block off plate'?

Thanks!

....Cotten

Tom; The block off plate is bolted on the mouth of the carb to keep debris out of the carb. I had pics of it, but they went to never, never land. It also has a factory part # tag for the motor.
Craig

[Rubone]

According to the parts book the UA uses a #5 fixed jet. #1`249-38E.