Spoke pattern confusion

[Reddawg]

Sorry if this has been asked before but I'm just getting into this and I can't seem to get a straight answer. I am working on a 1942 WLA and it will be in military trim. I am having problems finding a rear wheel. I have Palmer's books and that is where the confusion lies. In the original "How To Restore Your Harley-Davidson" on page 96 at the bottom is a picture of a rim from the tire side. It says in the caption that it is identified as "an 18" rim for 1935-1966 interchangeable wheels" The paragraph directly above that picture says this is the proper rim used on 45 Solo rear wheels. Notice that the spoke above the valve is on the right. Great.

Now one page over (page 97) two thirds of the way down the page in the first column it states, "looking at the rim from the inside, examine the location of the nipple holes above and below the valve stem holes. If the rim is an interchangeable rim, the nipple hole above the valve stem hole will be on the left." (It goes on to clarify that the above description is also from the tire side and that if you have a fully assembled wheel with a tire on it to reverse the locations.) This is in the direct conflict with the picture on the previous page.

So, I need an interchangeable rim for the rear of this 45 WLA but I can't seem to figure out which one I need. As I said, I'm sure this has been discussed before. I've searched on line but can't find those threads. Sorry if this is redundant. I'm also sure I'm overlooking something obvious and probably making a fool out of myself. Can anyone help me with this confusion?

For that matter, anyone have a correct 45 Solo rear rim/wheel?

Thanks.

Reddawg

[Rubone]

You are merely confusing yourself. The wheel is exactly the same on all models. On a 45 since the drum is on the other side it is reversed from Big Twin. They are no different and direction of spokes has zero to do with usage.

[Reddawg]

You are merely confusing yourself. The wheel is exactly the same on all models. On a 45 since the drum is on the other side it is reversed from Big Twin. They are no different and direction of spokes has zero to do with usage.

I appreciate the response but the confusion lingers. I understand that the Big Twin and 45 Solo Rear use the same rim. I just don't know if that is an "Upper Right from Valve Hole" rim or an "Upper Left from Valve Hole" rim. The book seems to contradict itself between those two pages. Any clarity would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Reddawg

[1950Panhead]

18" wheel #43004-35
Original - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...temCondition=4
New - https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...04-35&_sacat=0
Most original wheels were made by Kelsey Hayes and have a KH stamp inside, they are also more expensive then new wheels, with time and money they appear on ebay.

[Rubone]

Spoke holes on interchangeable rims are larger diameter than 45 front rims, they cannot be mixed up as they will not work on each others applications.

[Reddawg]

Spoke holes on interchangeable rims are larger diameter than 45 front rims, they cannot be mixed up as they will not work on each others applications.

Understood. I'm looking for the rear rim at this point. I'm also still really confused by what seems to be an obvious contradiction in the Palmer book as previously documented. So, is the interchangeable rim an "Upper Right from Valve Hole" rim as shown in the picture or "Upper Left from Valve Hole" rim as stated in the text on the next page?

[1950Panhead]

I'm also still really confused by what seems to be an obvious contradiction in the Palmer book as previously documented.

There are several errors in Palmer's books, this is one of them.
On a star hub wheel all the nipples point in the same direction on each side.
On a 45 front wheel (non star hub) the brake side uses crossed spokes so the nipple holes point in both directions to meet the crossed spokes.
The photo looks like a cross spoke rim, my guess is a 45 front rim (non star hub).
I have doubts the inner tube holes were consistantly stamped one way on star hub rims and another way on 45 front rims (non star) however all bets are off for me anyway.

[oldsouthmcy]

I have Palmer's books and that is where the confusion lies. In the original "How To Restore Your Harley-Davidson" on page 96 at the bottom is a picture of a rim from the tire side. It says in the caption that it is identified as "an 18" rim for 1935-1966 interchangeable wheels" The paragraph directly above that picture says this is the proper rim used on 45 Solo rear wheels. Notice that the spoke above the valve is on the right. Great.

Now one page over (page 97) two thirds of the way down the page in the first column it states, "looking at the rim from the inside, examine the location of the nipple holes above and below the valve stem holes. If the rim is an interchangeable rim, the nipple hole above the valve stem hole will be on the left." (It goes on to clarify that the above description is also from the tire side and that if you have a fully assembled wheel with a tire on it to reverse the locations.) This is in the direct conflict with the picture on the previous page.

Reddawg, without seeing your copy of the Palmer H-T book, I am guessing you have a first printing of the first edition book (it can be identified by the price on the book, the 1st printing price in 1994 was $26.95). Yes there are errors in the book; but in this case you are dealing with an omission. The omission deals with the 1st printing line on page 97 which reads “looking at the rim from the inside, examine the location …”. All later 1st edition printings were changed to read “looking at the rim from the inside with the rim standing up, examine the location …”.

Without knowing I meant for the rim to be standing upright for examination, as it is on the motorcycle as, a reader might assume I meant for the rim to be laying on its side for identification as is the rim on page 96.

As for the rim laying on its side on page 96, that is deliberate so the reader can easily read the KHW and 705 that is stamped inside the rim.

[oldsouthmcy]

I have doubts the inner tube holes were consistantly stamped one way on star hub rims and another way on 45 front rims (non star)

Without doubt you will find "Big Twin rims" with the holes in the opposite direction as defined in the H-T book. However, such rims were not originally interchangeable rims. I have witnessed 45 front rims "modified" to work as interchangeable rims by drilling and filing the nipple hole so to fit the larger nipple at near the correct angle. My ex-business partner did this several times in the 1970s & 1980s on his own bikes but not because the interchangeable rims weren't around but because the 45 fronts were sitting there waiting to be used.

[Reddawg]

Reddawg, without seeing your copy of the Palmer H-T book, I am guessing you have a first printing of the first edition book (it can be identified by the price on the book, the 1st printing price in 1994 was $26.95). Yes there are errors in the book; but in this case you are dealing with an omission. The omission deals with the 1st printing line on page 97 which reads “looking at the rim from the inside, examine the location …”. All later 1st edition printings were changed to read “looking at the rim from the inside with the rim standing up, examine the location …”.

Without knowing I meant for the rim to be standing upright for examination, as it is on the motorcycle as, a reader might assume I meant for the rim to be laying on its side for identification as is the rim on page 96.

As for the rim laying on its side on page 96, that is deliberate so the reader can easily read the KHW and 705 that is stamped inside the rim.

Mr. Palmer, thank you for your input. Yes, I have a first edition. I'm hoping that makes it more valuable. Despite my confusion in this particular case, this book has been invaluable to me. Thank you for your work. I jumped on the Military version when it came out and then again on the Second Edition of the Military version, which you signed. Thank you.

I appreciate your attempt to alleviate my confusion. I think maybe I'm getting confused as the word 'inside' is not definitive enough in my fairly inexperienced (in restoration work) mind. I suspect I would not have been confused if it were described as 'hub side' or 'tire side'. Using those terms (my terms), I'm still seeing a conflict between the pages.

The picture on page 96 is obliviously from the tire side. The nipple holes are Upper Right and Lower Left and this is identified as an Interchangeable Rim which I could use on the rear of my 45 WLA.

The text on page 97, whether it is the original edition or the modified version as supplied by you is followed by, "Should you be looking at a fully assembled wheel with tire, you can look at the valve stem hole from the hub side or outside [emphasis mine] of the rim and reverse the location of the nipple holes to identify the rims." So that tells me the previous descriptive text (original or modified) was meant to indicate that it was being viewed from the 'tire side' or inside.

Additionally, the text prior to the modified text you supplied reads, "If the inside of the rim has rusted, these numbers may no longer be legible." So once again, I'm deducing that 'inside' means from the tire side. And the nipple location between these two snippets of text still reads upper left and lower right which is in conflict with the picture on page 96.

Please forgive my obtuseness in this case. I beg your understanding. I'm just trying to find the right rear wheel for my 45 WLA. Without having received a definitive answer on what configuration I'm needing, I still think I need a wheel as shown on page 96 irrespective of what page 97 says.

Thanks again for the input. I'm on the hunt for a wheel. And thank you again for your great work.

Reddawg