VL carbs

[Tommo]

Steve,
Rather than cloud the J/JD board lets talk VL carbs here.
Tariff's, bought about by the Great Depression on non Commonwealth imports effectively stopped American imports into NZ at the Start of 1931.
This resulted in quite a few 1930 VL's but as far as I know no 1931 to 1933 VL's were imported into NZ at the time.
Most but not all 1930 VL's I've seen are fitted with DLX58 carbs.
One very original looking bike has a M41 fitted.
I've never seen a pot metal style Schebler fitted on a big twin.
Those carbs as far as Kiwi's are concerned, were only fitted to the 750c.c. twins.
My very original 1934 VL is fitted with a M21 carb and my 1935 VLDD 80 cu. in. has a M31 fitted.
J's are really my forte and although I own those two VL's I've never done much research on the subject so these comments are more observations than hard facts.

[Steve Slocombe]

Good idea Tommo to start a fresh thread on this. Here's what I said earlier:

Now we're getting into the fascinating subject of undocumented brass Scheblers used say 1929-31, and I'd appreciate fresh insights. The 1928 Schebler overhaul manual shows the DLX 45 used on the 1928 JD with the DLX 48 on the Police model JD. This list also shows the DLX 38 for 1927 and the DLX 53 for 1927 racing and hill climbing. Original mid-1930 VLs use the pot metal DLX 80, with contemporary Indians taking the pot metal DLX 77, 79 and 81. That leaves the brass DLX 58, 66 and 72 as the remaining ones most commonly seen, which by inference would have been used on the 1929 and early 1930 JD/VLs. These are all three bolt 1 1/4 inch units like the DLX 45s, which is the one I see most often. Would anyone like to step in with info on carburettors from original 1929/30 big twin Harleys?

And:

For a little more info, the 1930-40 Harley parts book shows five carburettor body part numbers. One, 1226-33A, is the 1" Linkert 1933 and up and another 1226-33 is the 1 1/4" Linkert 1933 models and up, which we know relatively well. 1226-30 is then described as 1930-38 45" twins and commercial, which must be a 1" unit. We are then left with two 1 1/4" bodies, 1226-28 being 1928 to first 1930, and 1226-30A described as die cast, later 1930-33 74" twins, DLD and RLD. I'm thinking 1226-28 being the brass Scheblers in the DLX 45-72 range, while 1226-30A is the pot metal Schebler DLX 80-92. So we know that brass Scheblers were used on 'first 1930' VLs. 30V8795C, a very original UK bike, had a DLX 80 fitted, so 'first 1930' must have finished before that. Unfortunately we don't know which number brass Scheblers were used on first 1930 VLs, but I'd guess DLX 58, 66 and 72 could be in there.

[Steve Slocombe]

To complete my brain dump, here's what I reckon on VL carbs

First 1930 DLX45 Schebler (I now think higher numbers more likely)
Late 1930 DLX 80, DLX 82
1931 DLX 85
1932 DLX 88
First 1933 DLX 92
Later 1933, M2 and M21 Linkert with brass bowl
1934 M21 with brass bowl
1935 M31 with aluminium bowl, no drain hole until 1939
1935 VLDD M31L
1936 M41
1936 VLH M41L

plus the M31F, M31F1, M41F1 and M41LF variants for the California Highway Patrol, with the F presumably standing for fixed jet to stop the riders fiddling. For the 80 cubic inch bikes the L carbs will be fitted with the 1 1/8" venturi rather than 1 1/16" mostly used. I've seen 1" and 15/16" venturis in early 1930s pot metal carbs which could have come from VLs.

[Peter Cooke]

So we know that brass Scheblers were used on 'first 1930' VLs. 30V8795C, a very original UK bike, had a DLX 80 fitted, so 'first 1930' must have finished before that. Unfortunately we don't know which number brass Scheblers were used on first 1930 VLs, but I'd guess DLX 58, 66 and 72 could be in there.

Hi Gents,
My low numbered (11XX) 31V came with a brass DLX72 and an early manifold 428-30 rather than 428-30B. Left over early parts being used on export bikes perhaps??

I have no proof that the carb & manifold are original but I have no reason to think they're not either. So who knows...

Hope this helps.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Peter, yup, Harley had a long history of using up last years parts on export bikes. Look at 35VDS1371 in the Alcazar Military Museum in Toledo, Spain, with 1935 mudguards and a 1934 tank. I also know of an Australian 1936 VL with the one-year 1935 air intake that the owner swears is original. And we have some 1929 750 cc Harleys in Europe with highish serial numbers, suggesting the early single frames changed mid year were used up on export bikes. I also suspect the magnesium pistons used on the 1933 VE and VLE models were the original early 1930 ones replaced in the recall of the first bikes.

[johnnyfire]

VL carbs

IMG_1351.jpgIMG_1352.jpg

DLX 88, manifold is facing opposite of most/all others I've seen.I was going to use this on an early V 30-33,I also have a DLX 91??? and a M2.What is your take on the Manifold and the 91.I'm going to do a 1930,31,32 and 33 VL and am trying to get the right carbs for each.Thanks Johnny

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Johnny, looks like your carb was used on a late JD which had the updraft manifold. M2 would be good for 1933. DLX 91 might be Indian, but not listed in Jerry Hatfield's book. I have rough DLX 80, 85, 88 carbs if you like a challenge.

[MMasa]

Johnny
Is there a raised, cast number on the underside of your manifold that ends in -23?
If so, then that is a Harley JD manifold as used on 1923-1924 DCA and DCB motors as well as on all 1925-1929 74" motors.
May be correct for very early VL's also but that's out of my wheelhouse.
Mark

[johnnyfire]

Hi,yes it has a casting number ending in 23,thanks for the info.I won't be needing it so it will be for sale or trade.I don't know what a fair price would be.

[T. Cotten]

Here's another mystery, Folks!

The Indian world (as per Hatfield) believes the potmetal DLXs prior to the middle of '33 were bare, and all later issues were black (and glossy by my observations...).
My suspicion now is that all were black.
Has anyone any early H-D potmetal issues that show original paint, like Johnny's?

Second mystery: Float height settings seem to conflict as well. One piece of Indian literature (Service Shot #99) puts the potmetal models at 11/32".
Is there any H-D literature surviving for these models that is similar?

Thanks in advance as always,

....Cotten

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Tom, all my 1930-33 Harley Scheblers have been unpainted pot metal. I can't speak for the Indian ones as I've seen only post-1933 ones like DLX 130 which were black. I think I've seen various float height settings for the Linkerts, but would need to hit the books to confirm.