Age of engine without a VIN

[Siig]

Hello,
We have an engine that has never been used, still has the part tag and the sticky oil all over it. My father-in-law traded for it in the mid 40's thinking he was going to build a bike. He never did. Now we need to verify the age of manufacture. I called Harley Davidson corporate and was told since it was a part and never in a motorcycle, that they don't have those records that far back for parts. Any suggestions on where to look, or sources? There's numbers on it but nothing I (in my super limited knowledge base) can find to verify age. We think it's a 39 but I can't document it. I searched the forum but everything seems to have a VIN, and we don't have that. Again any suggestions on how to verify would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Debra

[exeric]

Of course a picture would help, but off-hand, I would say it is a military surplus 45 motor. Harley-Davidson motor numbers from that time period always had the year as the prefix to the model designation, and serial number. For example:

39EL 1002; 39 is the year, EL is the model designation, and 1002 would be the serial number. This was standard H-D serial number methodology for many years, and without a serial number it is either a military motor, a racing motor, or an unstamped spare motor case.

Military motor numbers are different, and I suspect that is what you have. Like I said, a picture would be very helpful, and if you intend to sell it, someone here could give you all the information you will need to properly describe it.

[Siig]

Thank you so much! I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to post photos on my first post. The best I had hoped for was a suggested link to a site or book.

Siig's dad was in WWII (he's 93 and still going strong) and said it was from some time then. We have a transmission too but the numbers do not seem to match. Again, a quick thank you for your kindness in replying and I'll go take some photos.
Debra

[Chris Haynes]

All military replacement engines came without a serial number. The age can be determined by the Line Bore number stamped on the bottom of the engine and the date codes cast into the case.
If the line bore number is something like 144 1234 the 2nd and third digits are the year. In this case 1944.

[Siig]

Thank you two so much for the information! It's not a 39, it's a 1943. I was giving the Harley Davidson person the part number, not the serial number so no wonder they couldn't help me. The serial number has no letters but is 43-#### . There's no other number in front of the 43- either.

Here's what I do have for pictures.engine.jpg

tag.jpgcasemess.jpg

Do these pictures help to confirm it's the military one as mentioned?

Thanks,
Debra

[Jerry Wieland]

That is NOT a Harley WLA that is a Harley UA. That motor is 74 cubic inches. In terms of old HD motors you have a fairly valuable piece. Is it for sale?

Jerry

[exeric]

If you have a title for that motor, you have a nice chunk of money sitting there. Don't give it away. The serial number that is important can be found on the side of the motor as seen in the 2nd picture your posted. Wow, that should be a pleasant surprise Debra

[Siig]

Oh my, so I guess we should not make a starter bike for me to learn on ....�� We weren't thinking of selling, we just wanted a cool old bike. We like old buildings and such have a 1940 Chevy so thought it would be fun. But if it's something unusual, I guess it should be used differently.

A question on how do you know it's a 74 and not the 45 inch? Siig had thought you had to pull the head to check size. He was unwilling to do that because it's "new" engine. How can you tell?

[exeric]

An easy way is to start Googling UL motors, and 45 motors. They usually have a large picture gallery and you can see the visual differences. If you want to get deeper into it, get the book, "How To Restore Your Harley-Davidson" by Bruce Palmer. As for building a bike; why not? Your motor is worth a lot of money because it is NOS and that makes it very desirable to collectors, but it was designed and built to be used.

However, if all you have is the motor, you're a long way off from getting a ride. The motor is worth money, and that could probably get you a nice running 30s, or 40s vintage Harley 45. Hopefully, some of the knowledgeable 45, and Big Twin Sidevalve talent on this forum will chime in, as they can tell you more than me.

[Siig]

Thank you for the book reference and what to google! That's been my problem as to where to start and that is why we joined. We have some of the other parts that go with it that my FIL picked up with it at the same time so maybe that will help with a restoration/build. Every time I have asked someone local or a bike shop to look at it, we are told all sorts of things - up to and including they'll scrap it for us as it's too old to work with. Ha!

Again, thanks for helping get us start and figure out the basics, and now we have to figure out what is best to do with it.
Debra

[Jerry Wieland]

The serial number on this engine if it has one would be on the boss circled in yellow but most NOS (new old stock) engines have a blank serial number boss.

Jerry

[exeric]

If you're going to build a bike (at the minimum) you would need the following: Motor, transmission, frame, and front fork. That's just the big stuff, the devil is in the details and there are a lot of weird parts that are proprietary to making the big stuff go together. If you really want to do this, and I don't want to discourage you, it will be an intense learning experience, but one that could completely side-track all of the other stuff that you like to do. Most everyone here is a vintage motorcycle addict and has a lifetime of experience with it. The reason they have stayed with it is because in this hobby, you will meet the most interesting, and friendly people in the world, because they are the kind of people that love old motorcycles. I'm sort of kidding, because there are also some real jerks, and sharks in it too, but the best friends I have are motorcycle friends. It's a great journey, so keep us posted, and don't be afraid to ask the most fundamental questions.

[Siig]

Hi Jerry,

It's blank.
noboss.jpg

Thanks for helping me!

Debra

[Siig]

Thanks Eric for the words of encouragement but I think, as you are kindly pointing out, this may be something that's not good for a starter bike. I've learned a lot in the last 48 hours just from finding out it's a military engine - that opened a whole new world of understanding for us. My FIL told me the shop it came from, so now I am on a mission to learn about the transmission. One person mentioned it's for a sidecar and has reverse, and that it wouldn't go with the engine......but my FIL wouldn't buy something that didn't work together. So now at least I have a starting point with the engine and will have books to learn from shortly. I'll try not to be an obnoxious newbie and learn about what we will probably be selling. We have just been told things from people I realize (now) that wanted to buy it for scrap from us. Again, that why I joined here as I figured that people that truly love old bikes wouldn't tell us wrong, and I would be pointed in the right direction.
Thanks again,
Debra

[Jerry Wieland]

If you have the transmission it could probably be identified if you were to post a picture of it.

As for your engine the 112-402 is a HD casting number (not to be confused with part number) and the L 2 is a casting date that translates to December of 1942 - L being the 12th letter of the alphabet.