Frame tube loose in socket

[downunder vl]

Hi all,

I have discovered that the lower frame tube that fits into the rear axle plate on the chain side of my VL is loose in the socket. I have filed back the brazing from around the joint and there is no break in the tube. The pin looks firm from the outside so I assume that it has either sheared off inside the tube or worked loose after the brazing has let go. I have attached a photo.

Suggestions please on methods of repair.


Frame.jpg

[Jerry Wieland]

That is a bit unusual. I've had to fix a few slipped joints in late Indian chief frames (usually the upper seatpost) but never in a HD. Usually you would find a Harley might be cracked and usually it is a chopper.

If it were mine I would clean it up real good and then heat it to brazing temp and try to feed a little more brass into the joint and see if I could get it to hold. I would not hold my breath.

I have also drilled the socket from the back (hidden from common view) so that I get past the outer metal but not thru the inner tube and then feed brass in that way. It is almost impossible to arc weld where brass is.

The pin I would not worry about - it is my thought that it was there only to hold the frame together during the brazing process..

Jerry

[exeric]

I wonder if the pin did shear? If so, perhaps you could use a drift and push the remnants of the old pin through. Then you could drill a slightly bigger hole, and make a pin to fit. Brazining is going to be the best fix but I'm the belt and suspender type, and a new pin is certainly going to help keep your pants up.

[Robert Luland]

Ya got a two fold problem there. 1. The socket has most likely sucked in oil so the rebrazing thing is iffy. This is the way I handle a repair like this. I use a 5/16" RotoBroch. You drill a 1/8" hole on each side of the casting. You then go in with the RotoBroch and only drill down to the tube. Tig weld the holes up and clean up. Then use 45% silver brazing alloy with flux. Put a lot of flux on the beginning of the joint. If all possible hang the bike up vertically if you can pull it off. What ever when you heat the joint to the proper temperature, the joint should wick in the flux and rebraze the joint for looks. The tig weld alone will make it the strongest joint on the bike. Bob L

[downunder vl]

Thanks all for the input. I'll be getting into it this week and let you know what I find.

Any others who have suggestions in the next few days welcome.

[downunder vl]

Thanks again for the input.

We drilled through where the braze indicated that the pin would be and found there was no pin and never had been. We then tapped the hole and screwed in a high tensile bolt. To confirm that the tube had no fracture we tested the joint and found that there was now no movement. We silver soldered the socket and rebrazed around both sides of the high tensile bolt and it now looks as good as new.

Thinking about the pin I would say that there are two possibilities.

One. That the pins were only used in the joints that needed to be secured for brazing and the joints that were solid did not have pins and were just brazed.

Two. The pin was simply forgotten on this joint.

[Robert Luland]

My take on the pins when I started taking my 22 loop frame apart was that they had nothing to do with structural integrity at all. It was the only way to hold the frame together at the time. Keep in mind that they did not have electrode welding technology yet. That didn't come about until around 1927 and was crude by today standards. They did have spot welding and was heavily used in manufacturing (I drill out over a 180 on my side car body). The way I see it, they had one department assembling the frames with pins and would then be taken to the brazing department and locked into a jig. Locating the pins was a small nightmare. Years of rust had blended right into the castings. I tried heating them hoping they would expose them selves but no go. They were drilled and installed indiscriminately. I'm glad to see you were able to remedy the problem easily, I love a happy ending. Bob L