35 VLD Oil Pump

[c.o.]

Rich, if you don't have an owners manual and want the instructions while you're waiting to get one then just holler and I'll post the info.

[Panama]

Hello,
I want to better understand what Sargehere stated.

"After riding about 100 miles, it's always best to push down the spring-loaded plunger located over the engine sprocket on the left side, opening the cone-shaped plug on bottom of the motor and draining the oil that does accumulate, out."

I want to make sure I understand this. After riding your VL for 100 miles, it is recommended to drain the crank case. Should you pump 2 or 3 squirts from the plunger back in or is the motor wet enough to continue riding? While we are on this subject, what is considered high speed? The Rider's Hand Book instructs to add "about 1/2 a pumpful every two miles" "when running at high speed for a long distance". If I ride my VL at approximately 65 mph or less, do I ever need to use the hand pump while riding? Slocombe's book states that after "injecting two hand pumps full" into an empty crankcase and then "draining the cases again on return", there should be "a small coffee cup full of oil left in the crankcase". I have never been certain of what that meant. Can anyone tell me what quantity that actually is? I tried this one time and got about 5 oz. out. Is that about correct?

[frichie68]

Thank you for bringing this up again. I have a '35 VLD, my "rider's hand book" states that after draining and flushing the crank case "Close drain, inject 3 1/2 pumpfuls of oil into case, and motor is again ready for service." No mention is made of draining the case every 100 miles. I've been doing just that for a lotta miles with no problems. Have I been doing it wrong?

[Sargehere]

Hello,
I want to better understand what Sargehere stated.

"After riding about 100 miles, it's always best to push down the spring-loaded plunger located over the engine sprocket on the left side, opening the cone-shaped plug on bottom of the motor and draining the oil that does accumulate, out."

That was to check, after first running the motor that he's not yet familiar with. Checking the oil pumping & consumption rate. You may find that when well-adjusted, you'll rarely have to drain the crankcase. Harley-Davidson expected that, properly adjusted, the V-model's oil consumption (burning and leakage) would nearly-exactly equal its required input through the pinion shaft and right flywheel to the main bushings and crankpin bearings.

Once the oil reaches the crankpin, its job is done, and it is flung onto the inside crankcase wall. When enough oil gets accumulated there, the rider can "feel" it. It feels like someone filled the crankcase with molasses, or honey. Then it's time to pull on to a dirt trail and (U.S. EPA forgive me!) depress the plunger over the engine sprocket and let out the accumulation. Then, with an empty crankcase, to pump it two or three pumps (riders grew to have personal preferences as to how much they thought their motors required) to renew lower end lubrication and be on their way again.

I want to make sure I understand this. After riding your VL for 100 miles, it is recommended to drain the crank case. Should you pump 2 or 3 squirts from the plunger back in or is the motor wet enough to continue riding?

Two or three pumps and five ounces discharged sounds perfectly all right. Remember that you're just keeping the big end bushings/bearings bathed in fresh oil, and too much is better than not enough. But with practice you will become fully proficient, and confident that your motor is running and not in danger of burning up.

While we are on this subject, what is considered high speed? The Rider's Hand Book instructs to add "about 1/2 a pumpful every two miles" "when running at high speed for a long distance". If I ride my VL at approximately 65 mph or less, do I ever need to use the hand pump while riding? Slocombe's book states that after "injecting two hand pumps full" into an empty crankcase and then "draining the cases again on return", there should be "a small coffee cup full of oil left in the crankcase". I have never been certain of what that meant. Can anyone tell me what quantity that actually is? I tried this one time and got about 5 oz. out. Is that about correct?

High speed is probably faster than you'll want to run your 75-year-old bike routinely these days. Maybe "high speed pursuit" or "I have to get my wife to the hospital!" fast: PUSHING it. Of course, if you're trying to make time on an Interstate, that's modern high-speed, and I'd be pumping the hell out of my plunger pump on the tank while I was doing it. But I'd only be doing it in an emergency.

You want to become familiar with your own motor, which won't vary much from anyone else's motors, and work on adjusting that cable that splits off the carburetor cable and adjusts the amount of oil routinely fed the engine depending upon the throttle opening. That's probably the most important adjustment for ordinary,day-to-day riding, and more in mind of lessening unnecessary over-oiling without starving your motor by running it "dry." The hand pump might be considered to be for initial startup and situations where you think you're pushing your motor. I know, it's a learned art, and learned with practice and close supervision until you gain confidence. Hope this helps!

[Steve Slocombe]

I think the half pumpful of oil every 2 miles for high speed running is a hangover from the old days, and you're just going to flood the cases if you do that. The Rider's Handbook says drain the cases at least every 750 miles and I've never made it that far. I'm mostly breaking in newly rebuilt motors, and it takes a couple of hundred miles to trim the oil pump, during which time I probably drain the cases 3 or 4 times. Remember we're mostly using oil rings on the pistons these days, and turn down the chain oiler lower than for dirt roads, so the oil pumps usually end up set below the factory marks.

[Sargehere]

Good advice there, Steve. Reminding us how today's "real world" conditions differ from the 80-year-old manuals' advice, like our use of oil rings. Thanx for that!

[frichie68]

I'm STILL not clear on this.
After draining the case, it does not sound right (or safe) to me to start and run the engine without injecting at least some oil as stated in the riders hand book...

[Jim]

I'm STILL not clear on this.
After draining the case, it does not sound right (or safe) to me to start and run the engine without injecting at least some oil as stated in the riders hand book...

Where did you read that? Because I don't think you should do that either...

[c.o.]

I do believe in all of this that it is still advisable to give that hand pump a couple of shots after draining the crankcase. At least that's what I took away from this thread.

[Sargehere]

Injecting a "startup" couple of pumps is routine procedure just after draining the sump. It's not that much oil, and just insures that you don't have too little to start with. It's also in the Rider's Handbook. See post #18. That's a quote.

Gotta remember that in this era, lubrication was still a little "iffy." The whole system here described leans towards "over" lubrication, rather than under. Easy to over-oil, and far safer than burning out your motor bearings/bushings. Remembering that the pinion shaft runs on a mere bushing (PN 413-30) in these old motors, and YOU control the lubrication.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Gerry, in defence of the VL, that pinion shaft bushing is nearly 2 1/4" long, 55 mm, and doesn't always need to be changed during an overhaul. With the modest compression ratios of the 1930s those VL bottom ends last a loong time.

[Sargehere]

Dear Gerry, in defence of the VL, that pinion shaft bushing is nearly 2 1/4" long, 55 mm, and doesn't always need to be changed during an overhaul. With the modest compression ratios of the 1930s those VL bottom ends last a loong time.

I agree, VL's need no defense! (American spelling there, Steve) Those pinion shaft bushings last an amazingly long time, but only if they get their fair share of oil, the elixer of life for these old engines! Heheh.

I offered that only as an example of why it is always advisable to give the motor a couple of shots with the hand pump just after draining the accumulation by depressing the bottom plug. "Plenty of oil-ee, no squeak-ee," an old time VL rider once told me. The questions raised in this thread tend toward the, "am I wasting oil by over-pumping?" and I think the answer to that is only one of convenience, and economy. What goes in can always be drained out, and more oil is always better than too little, but with 50-weight going for between six and eight dollars-a-quart in the 'States, that has become a consideration.

I know another friend, with whom I consulted when first posting to this thread, who saved all his lightly-used, near-new oil that he drained from his VLs and poured it into a his other less-finicky motors, like his well-worn 48 Dodge, and side-valve lawnmower and his kid's go-kart, and saved a little money.

I know that today's VL riders are always very careful to drain their crankcases only when they return to their garages, and empty all of the "used" / almost-new oil into an approved container for proper recycling, and would never pull off the road on to a dirt lane and let fly the hydrocarbons onto/into the earth, and the water table!

Pardon my flippancy; it's Sunday morning, the sun is shining here in Florida, and I long to go for a ride. God bless all you antique motorcyclists, wherever you be!

[frichie68]

Personally I'm more concerned about not breakin' it and having it run good than I am about wasting oil. The EPA hates me anyway and that won't change in my lifetime.
Some of us antique motorcyclists are known as OGREs...Old Gents Riding Easy.
Or maybe OFREs...(as in phartz)

[Peter Cooke]

I know this goes against everything we've ever been taught but given the "lightly used and near-new oil" being drained from VL's has anyone considered re using it in their VL?
Oil technology has come a huge way since the 30's and even the cheapest basic stuff is built to last far longer than a few hundred miles.
If it's coming out almost as clean as it goes in then it's not breaking down or collecting contaminents and all the other things that happen after 5000 miles in the car and it's easily filtered through an old pair of stockings or something similar.
I guess new oil is always cheap insurance but given the rising cost of everything it may not stay as cheap as we'd like.

[bselph]

When I drain mine it comes out black. I don't know how dirty it really is but I don't think I want to reuse it. I only drain it about every 500 miles as most of it drips out during regular use and is replaced with fresh oil by the pump.