35 VLD Oil Pump

[rwar]

I just got a beautifully restored 35 VLD that was put up for a few years. It fired right up and sounds absolutely perfect. But the oil...

It flows out of the back rear of the primary in a steady stream. I know there is supposed to be a trickle put into the breather tube keep the front chain lubricated. Can a regulator or something like that in the pump stick somehow and flow like crazy?

I also have a pretty good flow out from under the rear exhaust valve cover. And a trickle from the rear exhaust port down around the outside of the pipe.

Any words of wisdom before I mess something up?

Rich

[fabercycle]

Did you dump the old crankcase oil , and hand pump in a couple of strokes before you fired it?

[rwar]

No, I put oil in the tank and discovered that the pump is BS, so I was reluctant to drain off what was in the crankcase. I let out a little and it was fresh and clean, so I figured that was the safer move. But it never occurred that it could be overfull. Duh.

Which brings me to my next question - how can I add oil without a pump? There is a bolt head in the top center of the case, angled so that it looks more like a fill plug than a bolt. Could it be? And how much would be correct?

Thanks a bunch for the quick help.

[bselph]

I am not sure what bolt hole you are talking about. There is a timing hole plug on the left side between the cylinders. If you drain the crankcase completely, the owners book says to put 2 1/2 pumps in and that should be about 6 to 8 ozs of oil.

[rwar]

Bob,

Thank you and fabercycle for the helpful information. That should keep me going until I get the pump working.

[fabercycle]

It sounds like you totally don't understand what were saying.

.......Your engine oil pump is likely just fine, it is not "BS". A 35 VL oil pump does NOT return oil to the tank, so I would reconsider "getting the pump working" Use the crankcase drain on the left side of the motor to completely drain the cases, and make sure it is closed after you are done. Next use the HAND PUMP found on the top of the oil tank turn the knob till you can pull it back about 5", and use it to pump 2 or 3 pumps back into the crankcase. Then start the bike and it should be fine.

Enjoy.

[rwar]

Actually, I do totally understand what you're saying, I just conflated two separate issues concerning the two different pumps and caused confusion. But I appreciate you taking the time to help me out.

This thread was started because I thought the engine oil pump was possibly running amok, pumping full blast out the breather tube. It didn't occur to me that the sump might just be overfull. Other than one panhead, all of my other vintage bikes are Indians, so this is somewhat new territory and I was anxious to get it fired up.

The BS was a description of the hand pump, which currently is a pretty handle on a rod but nothing else. I would expect some form of plunger cup and check valve(s). Hence the term BS...

What I was trying to say was that I didn't change out the oil that was in the crankcase when I got the bike because I wasn't exactly sure how to get more into it, and the oil in there looked brand new. But now, thanks to the insight gained from the helpful folks here, my next step is to drain the crankcase, put in half a quart through the timing access port, and see if I was worried about nothing. And to find the parts to make the hand pump operational, of course.

Thanks again,
Rich

[c.o.]

It sounds like your getting it figured Rich. A total loss system is pretty cool once you get it figured out. I've ridden with a friend that had a '36 VLH. That bike ran strong and had no problems passing the rest of us!!! Best of luck and if possible show us a pic of this restored beauty!!! Most of us are photo hounds around here...

[Sargehere]

...
What I was trying to say was that I didn't change out the oil that was in the crankcase when I got the bike because I wasn't exactly sure how to get more into it, and the oil in there looked brand new. But now, thanks to the insight gained from the helpful folks here, my next step is to drain the crankcase, put in half a quart through the timing access port, and see if I was worried about nothing. And to find the parts to make the hand pump operational, of course.

Thanks again,
Rich

Rich, I'm afraid that you don't yet-understand the Harley total-loss, dry sump oil system. It is not designed to return oil from the motor to the tank in any way. It is a total-loss which means you don't fill the crankcase with oil, it is gravity fed to the mechanical pump under the right-side cover. Do not add oil through the timing port (left side hole). Starting with no oil in the crankcase, with the the priming pump on top of the tank, give it three strokes with the hand pump. That initially oils the main bearings. The tiny oil pump behind the right side crankcase cover just slowly adds oil to the bearings. After riding about 100 miles, it's always best to push down the spring-loaded plunger located over the engine sprocket on the left side, opening the cone-shaped plug on bottom of the motor and draining the oil that does accumulate, out.

When the cable attached to the oil pump is correctly adjusted, the oil pump will pump in an amount equal to the amount naturally burned by the running engine. But, normally, that balance is not achieved, and the crankcase accumulates oil. All that oil originates the oil tank. Never add oil directly to the crankcase!

May I suggest that you try to acquire a copy, a reprint, of the VL Riders Manual. It should be easy to get, and is basic. Hope this helps!

[c.o.]

Whoops... it looks as though my mind wandered and I didn't read things right. Sarge put it into perspective. A riders manual would be helpful as well as a 2nd or 3rd edition of Bernie Nicholson's Modern Motorcycle Mechanics. Keep at it Rich. It will be old hat in no time!!!

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Rich, you probably need to start by replacing the missing parts in your hand pump plunger. And if you do want to fill oil through the timing plug as a stopgap, it needs only say 6 ounces and not half a quart. Most of these early oiling problems are covered in my VL restoration book.

[rwar]

I appreciate all of you taking the time to straighten me out. Let me try again:

- I have no hand pump yet. There is a rod attached to a handle, but nothing more.

- The Rider's Manual said the crankcase should be drained and new oil introduced. Since the only unit of measure mentioned was hand pump strokes, I was uncertain as to the actual quantity but pretty sure that is was not zero.

- I was inquiring about the correct amount and a possible alternate means of introduction.

- I do know it is a total loss system and do not expect it to return to the tank.

- I hadn't actually noticed the term dry sump in the manual, so I couldn't be sure that emptying it was OK.

- With hindsight, I now guess that it simply wet-sumped and what I was originally freaked out about was just a purge of the overage.

Thanks,
Rich

P.S., as requested, attached are pics. (Breather cover was off, darn it.)

[c.o.]

Wow!!! That's a nice one Rich!!! Don't you dare tell me that you didn't have a big grin on your face when you brought that beauty home.... It looks like you weren't completely understood for sure. Get that hand pump happening and you should be good to go.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Rich, that's a nice looking bike in full Art Deco brilliance, and fast too. You might want to put it in for AMCA judging next year to see just how close it is to how it left the factory.

[bselph]

Rich, beautiful bike! Remember that if it is not dripping oil something is wrong. There are instructions for adjusting the oil pump on the right side of the engine under the timer cover in the Owners Manual and Steve's book is the bible on VL's. You need to have both of the books.
Here is a pump for the oil tank
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3555-25-HARL...sories&vxp=mtr

Bob