dumb question from an Indian guy

[fillibuster]

What years did HD use the I-beam fork? and on what models? and any engineering comments are welcome. heck, any comments are welcome.

[Jim]

Are you talking about the forks used on the 1930-1936 VL models? If so, I think those same type of forks were used on the 45" bikes those same years. They are pretty heavy, but other than that, I can't add many more comments.

[Rubone]

The first I beam forks appeared on some late '29 J series and were also apparently sold as replacements for the same. The VL used one its entire life span with large outside mount rockers and a 1-1/8th inch stem. From '36 on all OHV and from '37 on BT flatheads all use the tubular fork. The 45 series used I beam from '30 on with smaller inside mount rockers and a 7/8ths stem. It was used on the 45s until '39. The new fork appeared on them in '40.

[duffeycycles]

Unsual for Robbie to miss one but the 1930-'34 C singles also used the [2602-30]45" I beam springer.I'm curious why you asked .

[fillibuster]

Unsual for Robbie to miss one but the 1930-'34 C singles also used the [2602-30]45" I beam springer.I'm curious why you asked .

I asked because I was curious. Maybe it was the glance at the calendar over my first cup of coffee, I don't know, but I was compelled to just ask. How else can I learn if I do not encounter old bike folks often enough to ask?

is it okay to ask another one?

[duffeycycles]

go for it !

[fillibuster]

go for it !

The little tail-light (bee-hive?), also on the 34 VL calendar bike. I'd like to know if this is another era thing.

[Rubone]

Only if you count the mid '20s to the late '30s as an era! They were on all models for years, and then a similar light was re-introduced for the new '48 lightweights. There are a few variations (single or double filament) and a few different mounting brackets, but the appearance was the same as far as lens shape.
The sheetmetal hood over the light was new in '34 and was used through '38.

[Sargehere]

The taillight, glass and metal parts, was similar back to the '20s, but the lens was originally only slightly convex. It became the extended "beehive" in 1934, when the steel "hognose" cowl was added, until replaced by the Streamline taillight in 1939. The beehive shape did add to the visibility of the red light when seen from the side of the bike.

Early taillights had single-filament bulbs and sockets. Brake lights, requiring a two-terminal bulb socket and a brake light switch, were an extra-cost option: "Stoplight & Switch" was an individual $3.50 optional accessory as late as 1934, and appeared as an accessory as part of the Deluxe Solo Group (but not the Standard Solo Group or the Standard Police Group) in 1936. The Stoplight and switch finally appeared in the Standard Solo/Police Groups in 1937. At least the Standard Solo Group ($21.75) was applied to almost every bike Harley-Davidson built, by that time, so you could probably date something as basic for traffic safety as a stoplight to 1937-onwards.

Remember the diagrams in driver's ed books of left arms out the window? UP for right turn, extended OUT for left turn, and DOWN for stop? It wasn't until the mid-1930's that stoplights started to catch on, and then become mandatory, state-by-state.

There are differences between the 34-38 (clear glass) license plate light lenses, also (they look a little like a shot glass; a shot glass with a dbl. convex lens for a bottom), and the later lightweights'/ K-model version, which was the same on the outside, but was ribbed on the inside.

[fillibuster]

Thx Sarge, for the romantic connections (bee-hive, hog-snout, pig-all!!), and the historical tech-developments. I guess that was part of my I-beam fork question as well, in how things evolved. Was the pre-29 1/2 tubular fork becoming too light for JD's?
and speaking then, of the early tube fork springer, that era was what?

but those complicated tail-light developments: ooooooo, I'll never get to judge harleys!!

[Sargehere]

Are you asking by "the early tube fork springer" (I think it was called the "Castle Fork"), about the one identifiable by the front, springing tubes extending up, almost above the headlight? That was Harley's patented leading-link fork back at least into the 'Teens. That's not my area, so I'll leave that for someone versed in J's and F-models.

Interesting sidelight on that, though, is that Brough-Superior (pronounced "bruff," btw, not "bro"), "The Rolls-Royce of motorcycles," actually paid Harley-Davidson patent royalties to copy their Castle Fork in the '20s & '30s; it was considered by those Brits to be that good. It gives a different ride from the trailing-link Indian forks of the same era, but it works pretty well, from my experience.

The tapered, tubular springer (1-inch neck) came out on the 61 c.i. EL that changed "everything" in mid-season 1936 for the Big Twins, and was used with slight variations through '48 and the intro of the Hydra-Glide for '49 (unless you ordered a sidecar-equipped bike in 1949; then you got a springer fork and the last year's fenders. The adj. rake Hydra-Glide fork wasn't ready until 1950) The 45 got a tubular fork later, with a 7/8" neck, and the Servi-car used it through 1957, as I think has already been explained above.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Phil, I guess the tubular JD 'Castle' fork was found wanting when the Harley front brake was introduced in 1928. There are detailed differences between the '28 and '29 forks as Harley strengthened them over time. The I-beam front fork was announced in July 1929 for the new VL models, and an I-beam version of the JD fork may have become available around the same time, or later as a retrofit. The fork is extremely strong, and you can see it on 1950s/60s dragster bikes drilled for lightness. It must also have been expensive and I assume the 1936 tubular knucklehead one is cheaper to make. The VL one has a 1 1/8" stem (actually 1 9/64") and the small twin one a 7/8" stem. The small twin version had tabs on the main fork to mount the front mudguard, while the VL one uses forward facing tabs on the spring fork. The bridge section on the VL spring fork was reinforced after 1930, and the main fork was made about 1/4" wider at the top after 1933 to accommodate the new wider 1934 mudguards. The 1936 VL fork carried a one year shield over the fork springs, needing a mounting tab on the spring section and the grease connections brought to the rear on the main section, making both parts '36 only. The small twin kept using the I-beam fork until 1939 as Gerry said.

On the tail lamps, the cup remained the same from 1915, but the bracket was changed in 1934 to fit under the swoopy Art Deco shield on the rear mudguard which ran through '38. An optional twin filament brake light was announced in 1934 and became compulsory a few years later. It is possible that some Police, Servicar or Military bikes used the single filament taillight longer. A domed red glass was introduced in 1935, which soon got the 1920 part number as it was intended to supersede the flatter version. Likewise the white numberplate glass with a dome to clear the larger double filament stop light bulb would also soon be the only type you could buy.

Both items show the Harley habit of making continuous improvements then airbrushing the history by changing the parts books. For instance if you front-ended your 1930 VL in the 1940s you would get a 1936 style fork from the dealer.

[fillibuster]

thx for chipping in, Steve.
I'm guessing that the design teams of 1929 were still bullish, or not smelling depression doom yet. Heavier and wider bikes with front brakes, and bigger tires, maybe?
Never considered something else: Were the Brits enjoying the Roaring 20's and suffering the Depression 30's similar to the Americans?
Concurrently?

[Rubone]

Were the Brits enjoying the Roaring 20's and suffering the Depression 30's similar to the Americans?
Concurrently?

Of course they were. Look at the history of the British Empire as well as the rest of the world. If you believe the depression was an American phenomena you have been drinking too much of the Kool-Aid!

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Phil, the VL was launched in July 1929, and the Wall Street Crash was not until October 1929, so I'd say Harley had no more idea the sky was about to fall in than we had in 2008. They had just paid a million dollars in cash to settle the Eclipse patent lawsuit, plus turned down buying Cleveland to get a four cylinder bike in their lineup like Indian. It took four years for VL production to go down from 10,000 in 1930 to 2,700 in 1933, by which time they were down to a two day week and the company was losing money. The singles were being assembled from parts stock, and I suspect the 'new' magnesium pistons announced for the 1933 VLE models were the ones withdrawn from the 1930 models for being too noisy. In Europe we were a little more insulated, but protective tariffs in England meant a Harley was four times the price of a BSA or Triumph and very few were imported. Some countries with no domestic production, such as Holland and Scandinavia, imported a few VLs which were cherished and hidden in wartime. In January 1933 Roosevelt was inaugurated and instituted the New Deal, while Hitler became German Chancellor in the same month as a reaction to the Depression, and history took a different turn.