Hacks... How Comfortable Are They?

[T. Cotten]

Cory!

It goes without saying that you will want to swap out some sprockets.
As far as a 3-speed H-D transmission, my opinion is to opt-out.
It is bad enough to lose a forward gear, but the reverse is so 'tall', its scary, and marginally practical.

I would also suggest that all novice tub-riders enter from the rear, as l lost two windshields to ladies grabbing them on their way in from the front step.
A simple step cobbled to the rear frame is more.... "ergonomic".

....Cotten

[c.o.]

I will add that if you are going to take up sidecar riding for the first time after being a 'two wheel' rider forever... consider taking an AMCA course or similar. My first riding experiences with a sidecar were not good. I had a Dnepr with sidecar and never got comfortable with it. I lost control a couple of times (fortunately on my long driveway) and ended up in fields and tree-lines. I never got the hang of it.

I took a sidecar course two years ago near Boston. A few hours in a class learning theory and then onto the range. Within a half hour I was high-speed slaloming, flying the sidecar, slaloming while flying the sidecar... recovering from all manner of odd things by the end of the day. The class was utterly worth it!

Cheers,

Sirhr

I just googled sidecar courses and it does appear that they are far enough away that I would have to plan a holiday around it! I might just have to do this the old fashioned way. The hot dogging does sound like fun though.

[QUOTE=Rubone;146083]My Wife, who is an avid rider and rides modern sport bikes along with our vintage stuff, loves to ride in my 44UL w/sc. She rode in it the first time in the late '80s shortly after we met and rode over 1000 miles her first time to an AMCA Road run. As said by others, it would lull her to sleep. I have only ridden it it twice in the nearly 40 years I have had it and both times was uncomfortable. But then I am not comfortable as a passenger in an automobile either...[QUOTE]

That is one nice UL Robbie. Another vote for the gal likes it. Cool.

With a steering damper and adjustable trees the driver has more fun and safety.
I have taken many fine ladies in both HD and Goulding sidecar rides.They prefer the Goulding for the ride.
I preferred the HD to drive...the Goulding had standard trees and was dangerous to handle.
All of the ladies seem to go into a quiet mode ,some to sleep,after just a few miles.
My one friend has a very bad back.We hit a bumpy road and I was concerned.She said it felt great on her back!

Thanks Duffey. I was hoping that the hack might alleviate the back issues that occur when riding two up. There's only one way to find out.

Cory!

It goes without saying that you will want to swap out some sprockets.
As far as a 3-speed H-D transmission, my opinion is to opt-out.
It is bad enough to lose a forward gear, but the reverse is so 'tall', its scary, and marginally practical.

I would also suggest that all novice tub-riders enter from the rear, as l lost two windshields to ladies grabbing them on their way in from the front step.
A simple step cobbled to the rear frame is more.... "ergonomic".

....Cotten

Cotten!

Thanks for the tips. I can see a mangled windshield in her hands now! Reverse would have been handy for parking here at home but you've given me food for thought on redesigning the shed door!

[Rubone]

Corey,
One of the most respected aficionados of sidecars and instructors in Sidecar use is in the Seattle area. David Hough, author of "Proficient Motorcycling" among other titles.

[fillibuster]

[QUOTE=c.o.;146112]I just googled sidecar courses and it does appear that they are far enough away that I would have to plan a holiday around it! I might just have to do this the old fashioned way. The hot dogging does sound like fun though.

[QUOTE=Rubone;146083]My Wife, who is an avid rider and rides modern sport bikes along with our vintage stuff, loves to ride in my 44UL w/sc. She rode in it the first time in the late '80s shortly after we met and rode over 1000 miles her first time to an AMCA Road run. As said by others, it would lull her to sleep. I have only ridden it it twice in the nearly 40 years I have had it and both times was uncomfortable. But then I am not comfortable as a passenger in an automobile either...

That is one nice UL Robbie. Another vote for the gal likes it. Cool.



Thanks Duffey. I was hoping that the hack might alleviate the back issues that occur when riding two up. There's only one way to find out.



Cotten!

Thanks for the tips. I can see a mangled windshield in her hands now! Reverse would have been handy for parking here at home but you've given me food for thought on redesigning the shed door!

My now-deceased ex insisted, back in '92, on a side-car because she hadn't the nerve to tolerate riding behind me, leaning into the curves. I had to rebuild the tub with mostly new sheet metal, and it was a lot of work, but the rewards are unforgettable (very positive). Her ride was smooth, and with practice my job just kept getting easier. I spent many evenings just giving rides to adults and kids. 99% of my riders got the smiles from it.
Mine was a hit on parades too. You can't do a whole lot of different tricks with it, but doing circles on 2 wheels is easier than you might think. You will probably become more popular on rides, because you will be hauling the "first-aid-kit" and all the jackets and loose parts, and some helmets.
Downsides: You'll see a lot of taillights as you hammer hard to keep up. You have to carry a spare can of gas, and more oil, or be more certain of your gas stops. You'll need to check, in shorter intervals, all those frame connections and wheel bearings and spokes, and changing points will have you bending over the seat. Your next top end job will call your name before you know it. And your right leg will feel more heat than you ever expected. If you are on an Indian and in a lot of hills be looking for a 19-tooth sprocket. You can pull a 23-tooth on the flats without a head wind.
I'll never forget those times.

[gharper]

Ok, I'll finally chime in. I've been riding sidecars since I was 16. Probably have more miles on 3 wheels than on 2. Only been in the chair a few times and it was comfortable enough, but unnerving, because somebody else was riding MY motorcycle!

As for the passengers I've hauled, I've never really heard any complaints. My mom loved to ride in the sidecar, any time, any place. Attached picture is of her a few weeks before she passed away from a nasty brain tumor. She couldn't make a decision about a thing anymore, barely spoke, just a blank stare. But when I showed up with the 24 Chief for a ride, she lit up like a Christmas tree and grinned all the way! I do recall two things she mentioned though. One was like Tommo said, the wind would come over the windshield of the Harley car and was cold on the back of her head and neck. She also swore that I never looked to my left and she just knew there was a semi coming from that way. Sitting lower in the sidecar blocks the passenger's view from the left which could be unnerving.

I queried the other ladies in my life and got varying responses. The wife likes riding in the old sidecar rigs but refused to even sit in the sidecar I put on the 84 FXRT. She likes riding 2 up on a modern bike and wondered why in hell I screwed up a perfect 2 wheeler by adding a sidecar to it! She is almost 6' tall so being crammed in a sidecar for a long time can be uncomfortable. My daughters both enjoy the sidecar rides, they started at an early age, they even had a sidecar bike to ride when they were little kids. One daughter went so far as to say that she actually feels more secure "riding Homo in the hack than bitch on the back". She likes the comfortable seat, not having to hang on, and the feeling of stability a sidecar offers. Both of the girls were embarrassed beyond belief when I would pick them up at school. Every kid there noticed them, hooted and hollered and wanted a ride. Even the moms and teachers were interested! I whored myself and the sidecar rig out to a few times for birthday parties.

Kids, dogs and old ladies love sidecars, so you'll never be alone for long. Bottom line is the passenger has to feel comfortable with the rider and their abilities. It takes a lot of blind trust to get in a carnival ride with no seat belt and go flying down the road sitting inches off the ground next to a roaring motorcycle with some jackass that thinks they are the coolest! So, be gentle, especially if it is their first time and you'll have a riding companion for life. Scare them from the get go and it's all over.

PICT2462.jpgIMG_0065.JPG

[fillibuster]

Well-said, Gene!
I hauled a veteran on annual benefit rides several times, he with half of one leg, 2/3 of the other. He rode the 100+ mile circle with me. So there are many special things you can do with a hack that you just can't do with any old motorcycle ..(like all the other antiques are "just any old motorcycle"!). That's gratifying.

And as I'm semi-retired now, it should be high time I picked up the grandsons from school in the hack. Good recruiting tactic, too!

[c.o.]

[QUOTE=fillibuster;146125]

My now-deceased ex insisted, back in '92, on a side-car because she hadn't the nerve to tolerate riding behind me, leaning into the curves. I had to rebuild the tub with mostly new sheet metal, and it was a lot of work, but the rewards are unforgettable (very positive). Her ride was smooth, and with practice my job just kept getting easier. I spent many evenings just giving rides to adults and kids. 99% of my riders got the smiles from it.
Mine was a hit on parades too. You can't do a whole lot of different tricks with it, but doing circles on 2 wheels is easier than you might think. You will probably become more popular on rides, because you will be hauling the "first-aid-kit" and all the jackets and loose parts, and some helmets.
Downsides: You'll see a lot of taillights as you hammer hard to keep up. You have to carry a spare can of gas, and more oil, or be more certain of your gas stops. You'll need to check, in shorter intervals, all those frame connections and wheel bearings and spokes, and changing points will have you bending over the seat. Your next top end job will call your name before you know it. And your right leg will feel more heat than you ever expected. If you are on an Indian and in a lot of hills be looking for a 19-tooth sprocket. You can pull a 23-tooth on the flats without a head wind.
I'll never forget those times.

Phil! You can paint quite the picture. Sounds like the fun is worth the wear and tear. I hadn't really thought about access to the right side of the bike. Some stuff is gonna take headstands...

[c.o.]

Ok, I'll finally chime in. I've been riding sidecars since I was 16. Probably have more miles on 3 wheels than on 2. Only been in the chair a few times and it was comfortable enough, but unnerving, because somebody else was riding MY motorcycle!

As for the passengers I've hauled, I've never really heard any complaints. My mom loved to ride in the sidecar, any time, any place. Attached picture is of her a few weeks before she passed away from a nasty brain tumor. She couldn't make a decision about a thing anymore, barely spoke, just a blank stare. But when I showed up with the 24 Chief for a ride, she lit up like a Christmas tree and grinned all the way! I do recall two things she mentioned though. One was like Tommo said, the wind would come over the windshield of the Harley car and was cold on the back of her head and neck. She also swore that I never looked to my left and she just knew there was a semi coming from that way. Sitting lower in the sidecar blocks the passenger's view from the left which could be unnerving.

I queried the other ladies in my life and got varying responses. The wife likes riding in the old sidecar rigs but refused to even sit in the sidecar I put on the 84 FXRT. She likes riding 2 up on a modern bike and wondered why in hell I screwed up a perfect 2 wheeler by adding a sidecar to it! She is almost 6' tall so being crammed in a sidecar for a long time can be uncomfortable. My daughters both enjoy the sidecar rides, they started at an early age, they even had a sidecar bike to ride when they were little kids. One daughter went so far as to say that she actually feels more secure "riding Homo in the hack than bitch on the back". She likes the comfortable seat, not having to hang on, and the feeling of stability a sidecar offers. Both of the girls were embarrassed beyond belief when I would pick them up at school. Every kid there noticed them, hooted and hollered and wanted a ride. Even the moms and teachers were interested! I whored myself and the sidecar rig out to a few times for birthday parties.

Kids, dogs and old ladies love sidecars, so you'll never be alone for long. Bottom line is the passenger has to feel comfortable with the rider and their abilities. It takes a lot of blind trust to get in a carnival ride with no seat belt and go flying down the road sitting inches off the ground next to a roaring motorcycle with some jackass that thinks they are the coolest! So, be gentle, especially if it is their first time and you'll have a riding companion for life. Scare them from the get go and it's all over.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14482[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]14483[/ATTACH]

I'm glad you decided to "chime in" Gene. Great stories... that's a cool pic with your Mom. You can tell she liked the sidecar. Good points as well. I'll do my best to avoid being a "jackass"

[Chuck#1848]

[QUOTE=c.o.;146165]

Phil! You can paint quite the picture. Sounds like the fun is worth the wear and tear. I hadn't really thought about access to the right side of the bike. Some stuff is gonna take headstands...

Cory,

I have been following this thread to see what others have to say about Sidecars, Hacks Etc.

I have been a sidecar jockey for 23 years now and wouldn't change it for anything, YOU will become popular in many ways like the others have stated. Most importantly is that you RE-LEARN new skills, take your time, find an empty parking lot and practice take a course if possible, you won't regret it should you find yourself enjoying the sidecar rig.

As for the right side of the bike for any maintenance issues, I made a bracket that I used on my old setup where I removed the front body bolts then attached the bracket to the body on the underside tied a rope to the bracket and hoisted the body up, you can almost in most cases had the body close to being vertical while still being fastened to the rear frame mount, then tie it off and do what you need to do.

One last note...Although I believe that everyone should learn to fly the "chair" for safety reasons, Keep in mind that this adds even more stress and pre-mature failure to swing arm bearings, spokes and some frame and bracket parts, And most of all DO NOT lug the motor....

[sirhrmechanic]

Chuck:

Your last paragraph is right on. Flying the chair is something that needs to become an instinctive skill -- like turning into a skid while driving a car. Because sooner or later, it will happen and when your bike goes from 3 wheels to two, it becomes a motorcycle again (with countersteering, etc.) in force. It's not something you want to do to show off any more than you would do wheelies or standies with your Chief or Knuck. It is a good way to have a bad wreck... and doesn't do your bike or your sidecar any good.

The handling of your bike goes completely caddywampus when you put a sidecar on. Every instinct you have now will be have to be re-placed with new sidecar skills and instincts. It's dooable, but Chuck's point about practicing and getting beyond just comfortable is important. You may have the basic skills down, but in a panic situation... you need instinctive reactions... not just a comfort level.

I can also say that pulling up to a stop sign... you will be trying to put your feet down now and then. When you stop doing that, it will be a good sign that you're in 'sidecar' mode. ;-) And when you forget to put your feet down on your two-wheeler, it's a good sign that you have crossed over to the dark side.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[Chuck#1848]

Cycle-moore 84.jpg

Chuck:

I can also say that pulling up to a stop sign... you will be trying to put your feet down now and then. When you stop doing that, it will be a good sign that you're in 'sidecar' mode. ;-) And when you forget to put your feet down on your two-wheeler, it's a good sign that you have crossed over to the dark side.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Sirhr........Been there and done BOTH of them LOL......after 20+ years solo riding it took maybe a couple months to break the habit of placing my feet down and well lets just say I learned fast back on the solo bike.

Cory, You decide but most people enjoy the heck out of it and most importantly, learn and practice
My 25 year old daughter (the reason for the first hack) has been in one since she was 2 years old, the photo was in 1994 at the Cycle moore camp ground in Northern Michigan

[T. Cotten]

Once upon a time...

I worked out of a custom/speed shop, and the shop gopher vehicle was a Yamaha 650 with a fibreglas California Flyer on the side. Winter came, and I took a knobby tire out of a dump and used a "Portaband" saw to cut the side knobs off so it would fit under the rear fender. It was great fun, but by spring you could shake a handle bar and make the entire machine rattle like a tambourine.

....Cotten

[c.o.]

[QUOTE=Chuck#1848;146170]

Cory,

I have been following this thread to see what others have to say about Sidecars, Hacks Etc.

I have been a sidecar jockey for 23 years now and wouldn't change it for anything, YOU will become popular in many ways like the others have stated. Most importantly is that you RE-LEARN new skills, take your time, find an empty parking lot and practice take a course if possible, you won't regret it should you find yourself enjoying the sidecar rig.

As for the right side of the bike for any maintenance issues, I made a bracket that I used on my old setup where I removed the front body bolts then attached the bracket to the body on the underside tied a rope to the bracket and hoisted the body up, you can almost in most cases had the body close to being vertical while still being fastened to the rear frame mount, then tie it off and do what you need to do.

One last note...Although I believe that everyone should learn to fly the "chair" for safety reasons, Keep in mind that this adds even more stress and pre-mature failure to swing arm bearings, spokes and some frame and bracket parts, And most of all DO NOT lug the motor....

I was wondering when you were going to show up Chuck. All pointers are welcome, so thanks for your input. I don't imagine I'll be bringing the chair up on purpose all that often. I'm not afraid to use/ride my bikes (gravel roads included) but I'm not much for abusing them.

Chuck:

Your last paragraph is right on. Flying the chair is something that needs to become an instinctive skill -- like turning into a skid while driving a car. Because sooner or later, it will happen and when your bike goes from 3 wheels to two, it becomes a motorcycle again (with countersteering, etc.) in force. It's not something you want to do to show off any more than you would do wheelies or standies with your Chief or Knuck. It is a good way to have a bad wreck... and doesn't do your bike or your sidecar any good.

The handling of your bike goes completely caddywampus when you put a sidecar on. Every instinct you have now will be have to be re-placed with new sidecar skills and instincts. It's dooable, but Chuck's point about practicing and getting beyond just comfortable is important. You may have the basic skills down, but in a panic situation... you need instinctive reactions... not just a comfort level.

I can also say that pulling up to a stop sign... you will be trying to put your feet down now and then. When you stop doing that, it will be a good sign that you're in 'sidecar' mode. ;-) And when you forget to put your feet down on your two-wheeler, it's a good sign that you have crossed over to the dark side.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Again, all good points Sirhr. I should note that I've spent quite a few miles behind the bars of a 3 wheel Honda in the bush. One of the biggest kicks I got was to pop one rear wheel up in the air and countersteer to keep things rolling straight down the trail. It was great fun. You don't want to put your feet down on one of those either! A young lady did exactly that with my trike after moments before being told not to. It pulled her right off that bike and spit her out the back! That was the last time I let anybody take it for a spin. I tell folks they are safer on their quads. I'm going into this as a beginner though and will be testing boundaries carefully. Absolutely nothing to prove here.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14485[/ATTACH]

Sirhr........Been there and done BOTH of them LOL......after 20+ years solo riding it took maybe a couple months to break the habit of placing my feet down and well lets just say I learned fast back on the solo bike.

Cory, You decide but most people enjoy the heck out of it and most importantly, learn and practice
My 25 year old daughter (the reason for the first hack) has been in one since she was 2 years old, the photo was in 1994 at the Cycle moore camp ground in Northern Michigan

Chuck, it looks like everybody loves a sidecar....

Once upon a time...

I worked out of a custom/speed shop, and the shop gopher vehicle was a Yamaha 650 with a fibreglas California Flyer on the side. Winter came, and I took a knobby tire out of a dump and used a "Portaband" saw to cut the side knobs off so it would fit under the rear fender. It was great fun, but by spring you could shake a handle bar and make the entire machine rattle like a tambourine.

....Cotten

Cotten! I have an old friend that ran a XS 650 with a Velorex chair in all seasons. That bike paid the price though. It was shook to death and handled like the loosest of jalopies! He'd do the knobby tire thing and fire some ballast in the tub and head over the highest mountain pass in the middle of January. I saw pictures of that rig in the far north by a gas station thermometer that said it was 50 below! The salt or salt "like" substance they spray on the highway in the winter did an amazing job of rusting that bike. It was as though it had been bathed long term in salt water.

[hennigan62]

Decided a couple of years ago to add a tle. side car to my 99 classic. My wife said she would not ride in it. Too close too ground. She rides her own 72 sporster and 73 servicar. I also have a 62 pan. After we installed and took some short rides, we both enjoy it. Took awile for me to learn to safely corner. We have taken it to south Carolina and up the dragons tail on way home. She likes on long trips for comfort and room for additional luggage. Nice addition to our small collection. Would recommend to all.

[GerryP]

I have a 1919 with a sidecar and everyone I take (granted they are short rides of anly a couple of miles) says that the sidecar is very comfy. more so than the bike. The story of this particular bike is that the original owner took his bride from Connecticut to San Francisco and back in the side car on his honeymoon in the early 1920's. I'd have to surmise that it would have been comfortable if he was able to get her to do that!