Dodge City 1914

[c.o.]

As most of us are aware that Milwaukee showed up at the races in 1914. I thought I'd post this article and see what folks thought. Check out the date on the story and tell me if you think that Harley-Davidson made a last minute surprise entrance?

[HarleyCreation]

Yes, Harley-D must have been a last minute entry.

I think in '14 they claimed the Harley riders were dealer sponsored and not Factory, but that was proably not altogether true. Pretended they didn't care too much in case they lost badly.

Notice too that Bill Brier and Ray Weishaar were not yet riding for H-D. They would be by 1915. That's when things really got going.

That $1200 in gold for the winners would be HUGE today in light of modern gold prices!

This is excellent info. Canadian Motor Cycle was a good magazine and no mistake.

[c.o.]

Thanks for the reply Herb! I'm in agreement that H-D likely had something to do with the races even though they may not have acknowledged it. My only time in Dodge City was on a Sunday and my wife was feeling under the weather so it was time to point for home. I do wish I could have taken in a museum or two to see what they might have had record of.

[HarleyCreation]

Yeah, when I was looking into the early Dodge City races I wanted to go there and see the place. Real historic frontier town.

What has always struck me about the early Dodge City 300 Mile Classic races c1914-'16 was this.

In the first two years there was a pile of different makes involved and some very cool early names: Thor, Cyclone, Pope, etc. But by 1916 it had come down to just 3 factories: Indian, Excelsior, and H-Davidson. To me that shows more than anything the decline in the early industry and how the lesser makes lost out. Sad...

The one bike that SHOULD have been at Dodge City but never was was the Perry E. Mack OHV Jefferson v-twin motorcycle.

That was a lost opportunity of world class historic proportions. Can you imagine if the Jefferson OHV had been in the 1915 Dodge City race up against the Yellow Devil Cyclone OHC, the Indian "eights," the Big Valve "X", and the hot Harley pocket-valves?

It boggles the mind how great that would have been!

[c.o.]

A Jefferson vs. Cyclone would have been a great event for sure!!!! I'm gathering that this never occurred elsewhere? I'm wondering if it could happen in modern times just to see what one would win...

[Scott Parker]

Hey Cory, Maybe not Dodge City but here is a link about the history of a neighboring racetrack in Kansas. Sorry if it's been posted before. http://winfield.50megs.com/Cowley/cycle.htm

[HarleyCreation]

A Jefferson vs. Cyclone would have been a great event for sure!!!! I'm gathering that this never occurred elsewhere? I'm wondering if it could happen in modern times just to see what one would win...

That's a great idea! If I had either one (built from low cost parts found in tobacco shed of course and not millionaire stuff) I'd enter it in a Jefferson vs. Cyclone race of the century.

You bring up a good question: Did a Jefferson OHV ever go up against a Cyclone OHC?

It almost must have happened sometime in 1915, but offhand I can't recall any such meeting. By then the Jefferson factory was defunct and that was the Cyclone's big year. But there must have been enough Jeffersons running around yet that the two machines met on a race track somewhere.

Maybe pem knows.

Reliability would have been a major issue between the Jefferson and the Cyclone. My hunch is that the Jefferson was more reliable but it's only a guess. While the Cyclone gets a lot more attention, personally I think the Jefferson motorcycle and engine was better looking and IMO a more sensible design.

If not for WWI and the Ford T, we probably would have seen an OHV twin in America put out by one of the big factories around that time. In fact, there was rumor c1913 that our friend Perry was going back to work at H-D again. Of course he would have brought his OHV motor with him. Shame that didn't happen either...

This stuff is what makes the pre-WWI period so darn interesting.

[c.o.]

Hey Cory, Maybe not Dodge City but here is a link about the history of a neighboring racetrack in Kansas. Sorry if it's been posted before. http://winfield.50megs.com/Cowley/cycle.htm

That's some good stuff Scott!!! You've given me another spot to check out if I ever get to Kansas again!!!

[c.o.]

That's a great idea! If I had either one (built from low cost parts found in tobacco shed of course and not millionaire stuff) I'd enter it in a Jefferson vs. Cyclone race of the century.

You bring up a good question: Did a Jefferson OHV ever go up against a Cyclone OHC?

It almost must have happened sometime in 1915, but offhand I can't recall any such meeting. By then the Jefferson factory was defunct and that was the Cyclone's big year. But there must have been enough Jeffersons running around yet that the two machines met on a race track somewhere.

Maybe pem knows.

Reliability would have been a major issue between the Jefferson and the Cyclone. My hunch is that the Jefferson was more reliable but it's only a guess. While the Cyclone gets a lot more attention, personally I think the Jefferson motorcycle and engine was better looking and IMO a more sensible design.

If not for WWI and the Ford T, we probably would have seen an OHV twin in America put out by one of the big factories around that time. In fact, there was rumor c1913 that our friend Perry was going back to work at H-D again. Of course he would have brought his OHV motor with him. Shame that didn't happen either...

This stuff is what makes the pre-WWI period so darn interesting.

Ahh.... another quest!!! It's time to search out bike entries for 1915!!! You could be right, pem just may know.... we'll have to send up some smoke signals to get his attention.....

[pem]

Hi Herb and Cory, I don't recall any race between a Jefferson and a Cyclone right off the top of my head. I'm sure it
could have happened. I know the Jefferson single used to rcae against and win against Indian twins.

About the reliability of each we know there was a problem with the Jefferson "Waverley" motors breaking valves and
falling into the cylinder. Frank Kitlitschko eventually patented a "button" to install inside the the cylinder head
to catch the broken valve before it destroyed the cylinder. Then you can imagine a junk of metal protruding
into the cylinder which then became red hot and I'm guessing causing the motor to act like a diesel. I wonder if the two remaining Jefferson v-twin motors or the other remaining singles had the button option. From looking at the
surviving 1913 Mack Motor blueprints Perry didn't use a "button" in his Mack Motor design.

Another part of history that is lost to time.

Dick

[HarleyCreation]

Jefferson vs. Cyclone c1914-'16

Yeah, same here, I can't think of a race between the Jefferson and Cyclone but such a contest almost certainly had to take place, somewhere.

I don't recall the Jefferson people ever fielding a big national attempt at speed fame like the Cyclone-Joerns people did in 1915. For sure no Jefferson showed up at any race in the recent Harley Eight-Valve story c1914-'16. If one had, I sure would have mentioned its presence.

But there were Jefferson twins shipped around the country, and it seems likely that a Jefferson-Cyclone contest might be found among more local 50- or 100-mile races of which there were many in that period. There's also the question of when the Cyclone first appeared on the race track. Was that in late 1914 or early 1915? Can't recall.

The point about the valve catching button getting red hot and leading to pre-ignition is a good one. I never thought of that. Joe Koller had a theory that the valve catcher "packed" the cylinder (I think that's the word he used), and that it effectively raised compression and thus boosted performance as well. But like you said, how many Jefferson motors actually incorporated the feature is not clear.

This Jefferson vs. Cyclone thing is very interesting. All we need to find is one instance and who won the race!

[c.o.]

Hi Herb and Cory, I don't recall any race between a Jefferson and a Cyclone right off the top of my head. I'm sure it
could have happened. I know the Jefferson single used to rcae against and win against Indian twins.

About the reliability of each we know there was a problem with the Jefferson "Waverley" motors breaking valves and
falling into the cylinder. Frank Kitlitschko eventually patented a "button" to install inside the the cylinder head
to catch the broken valve before it destroyed the cylinder. Then you can imagine a junk of metal protruding
into the cylinder which then became red hot and I'm guessing causing the motor to act like a diesel. I wonder if the two remaining Jefferson v-twin motors or the other remaining singles had the button option. From looking at the
surviving 1913 Mack Motor blueprints Perry didn't use a "button" in his Mack Motor design.

Another part of history that is lost to time.

Dick

Dick!

I know that Cyclones had their problems as well. In their infancy I believe they were notorious for fouling plugs. The frames were not up to task either as Don Johns proved while running flat out. I've read that he would literally run a machine until it fell apart around him.

"Another part of history that is lost to time."

Unfortunate but true. I guess it's what keeps us searching!!!

[c.o.]

There's also the question of when the Cyclone first appeared on the race track. Was that in late 1914 or early 1915? Can't recall.

This Jefferson vs. Cyclone thing is very interesting. All we need to find is one instance and who won the race!

I believe that J.A. McNeil and Don Johns both debuted Cyclones at different tracks in California on Labor Day weekend in 1914. I also think that Cyclones may have showed up earlier with less publicity.

I'm thinking we need some folks with 1915 motorcycle magazines to help us out with race results!!! Jefferson vs. Cyclone is a very interesting thought for sure!!!

[jurassic]

this is from the june 5, 1913 issue of motorcycling.

[c.o.]

Hey jurassic... it didn't take him long to change his mind did it?