Need help in identifying motorcycle

[pem]

I have finally got around to sorting out the Comet story. It has been a lot more complicated because of all the players involved and lack of research material. The photo below shows 4 riders and their motorcycles. The last 3 are Comets but I'm unsure about the first one in the lineup. It is light colored so it might be white or yellow. There seems to an exhaust pipe exiting just under the gas tank into a muffler. But maybe it's a air cleaner. I just don't know. Looks like something hanging in front of the motor. Some of you guys are much better at this than me. You can almost make out the name on the gas tank. Cyclone? Take a look and see what you think. The caption says they are all members of the Comet Motorcycle Club so maybe it is a Comet we have never seen before.

Thanks

Dick

[jurassic]

i believe that the bike you are refering to is a comet .possibly earlier or later than the other comets pictured. the manifold coming off the front of the head is i believe an exhaust manifold directed into the frame loop. essentially using the frame loop as an exhaust pipe ,and exiting into the muffler under the pedal cranks. wagner did this type of exhaust at about the same time. the lighter colored comet also appears to have an oil tank seperate and mounted on the top of the gas tank ,just like the strap tank harleys. possibly the missing link between comet and harley. in this picture the bike in the middle appears to be the same bike,and the same rider. you can see the differences and similarities between the other {later} comet and the strap tank harley.

[c.o.]

Dick!!! Thanks for starting this thread! Man I crave this stuff!!!! I'm with jurassic with the line of thinking that it's another Comet. I played around with the picture a little bit and then had a look at it with a magnifying glass, then had my teenager have a look at it with no hints and he spit out Comet so I'm convinced....

[jurassic]

[HarleyCreation]

So maybe it is a Comet we have never seen before.

Thanks

Dick

I think you guys are right. The light-colored bike on the left is a Comet motorcycle built in Milwaukee, Wis. You can almost make out the "C" on the gas tank name. It's gotta be a Milwaukee Comet.

In fact we can take this a step farther and identify this particular bike as being a 4-1/4 hp Comet bearing serial number #528. It belonged to Oscar Graf, 509 33st St., Milwaukee, Wis., the same guy named in the caption of Dick's photo (see non-cropped image in OP).

Dick, what is the date of the magazine this photo came out of?

We know this stuff because Oscar Graf also appears in my hand-written list of Comets registered in Wisconsin c1909-1911. Gotta be the same guy. Oscar Graf registered Comet #528 between Sept. 1-7, 1909 (reg.# 299). Also states it to be a 4-1/2 hp job.

Given the 3 digit serial number and later 1909 reg date, this could be a brand new "1910" model Comet. That would explain the differences we are seeing. Other Comets are listed as being 3, 3-1/2, and 4 hp, so higher hp also suggests the latest model. Wouldn't that be nice?

OTOH, wasn't the 1910 Comet equipped with the Waverley style leaf spring suspension? Unless they didn't actually build it that way. Do we know for sure?

Dick, double check that info against what you have and see if I got it right. And again, what is the date of the magazine so we know how that drops into this scenario.

So who was Oscar Graf? What did he do? Work in the Comet shop? Or just a pal who caught the motorcycle bug?

[jurassic]

[c.o.]

It may be my eyes but I don't see the Waverley style suspension in Dick's picture. This has me wondering if we're seeing earlier models in the photo. Jurassic's advertisement shows that style fork for 1910.... (If we are to assume that the advertising came to be). Whaddya figure? I guess we'll have to see when that article was published.

Oh, and Herb, with the magnifying glass I got a "C" and an "o"...... Man those are cool bikes!!!

[milw.pirates]

Herb,
Was Oscar Graf tied in with "Graf's" sodawater co.,locally famous for "Grampa Graf's "rootbeer ? currently in West Milw.,

[pem]

I knew I could count on you guys. Thanks for the enhanced photo Cory. I agree with you too Jurassic. Now I can plainly see that it is a Comet. A 1909 model or even a 1908. Just don't know for sure. Another possibility is it has a
motor from another make. In this time period riders were switching motors form one make to another. Lots of homebuilts were being made in Miwaukee. At least 48 were registered betwen 1909 and 1911. At least 2 members of the Comet club road other makes. Paul Hildebrandt had a reading Standard and Orrin Purdy had a special Greyhound racer.

Herb, the photo was from March 1910. So the photo had to be taken sometime in 1909. Herb, I don't think it is a new 1910 model. The 1910 model shown on the brochure has the "P.E.M." leaf spring suspension and the motor from the A.R. Just photo. The A.R. Just photo shows the bike without the leaf srping suspension and was most likely taken sometime in late 1909 or early 1910. It is also from March 1910 issue of Wisconsin Motorist of which I have the original. In another article I've located they(Comet) say the only improvements for 1910 was the spring frame and forks and a new belt tightener.

The caption form the original photo I posted says that it is Comet. The four guys were on a Club run from Milwukaee to South Chicago and said they had no punctures or repairs. They also said the roads in Illinois were far better than in Wisconsin.

My information on Oscar Graf matches yours Herb. We know he was a Comet Club member and vice-president of the club in Dec. 1909. Milw. Pirate, I really have no info as to his relationship with the Graf family you speak of. I grew up drinking Graf soda pop. I'm pretty sure we could determine if he is related with a couple of hours research. City directories are a wealth of inofrmation.

Thanks for all the input. Maybe we will get lucky and find more info.

Dick

[HarleyCreation]

Comet #59 had Leaf Suspension

Yes, I'm tending to agree left bike is probably NOT a 1910 model, altho I wouldn't rule it out as some kind of in-between model.

What is earliest date for Comet leaf suspension ads?

Cory, I agree. This early Milwaukee-built Harley clone-type bike is something special. With the leaf fork we are seeing them trying to get away from the strict Harley pattern and into their own thing. Too bad it didn't last. We do know there was an attempt at a twin.

In addition to the ads like Lonnie posted showing the leaf suspension for 1910, I have a note from a Milwaukee paper (Dick I think you have this too) telling of a bike for sale or stolen with this description: "Comet 1910 make; olive green; spring frame & fork; patent belt tightener. Eng. no. 59."

That describes an existing bike and clearly mentions spring frame & fork so we know they did build some that way. Like Dick said, maybe #528 is some kind of one-off, Special, or experimental job. No need to follow any set pattern or configuration if you were building them. That's why knowing how Graf fits in might help. VP of the club puts him right up there. Maybe he worked in their shop too. For sure the bike is ORIGINAL 1908-10 build and not somebody's fantasy bike 100 years later. That means a LOT.

Ken, I don't know if Oscar Graf had a soda pop connection to Graf's Root Beer, but it makes me recall that brand as a kid in Racine. The Wikipedia entry for Graf's doesn't mention Oscar by name. Like Dick said, the Milwaukee Directories would be a good source of info on these Comet guys. Some years at least give occupations and even where they worked. I don't think I looked up these Comet guys tho, mostly H-D guys.

Dick, can you look up 1909 regs. #802 and 1391? Both are for Comets but seem to contain additional info I had trouble reading with my magnifying glass. I'm curious what you see there.

Thanks!

[pem]

Herb, the earliest depiction I have of a spring frame Comet is from February 1910 and it is a drawing.
When it was first built I don't know.

The #802 list to:Leo Oconnor
210 Lincoln Ave.
Milwaukee 4 hp
Ser#18
Reg. date 05/13/1910
The #1391 list to:Wm. Koelpin
32 Burleigh St.
Milwaukee
"Comet" made by Galitiehyv(not sure of the spelling)
2 1/2 hp No Ser#
Reg. date 03/18/1911

Not sure if the last one is an actuall Comet. I've seen Comets with 3 hp and 3 1/2 hp too. I really think it all depended
what way the wind was blowing when the owners registered them and the clerk recorded them. These old records are kind of dodgy as you well know.

Let me look in my files for that stolen Comet article. I could have sworn it sadi it was a twin.

Dick

[pem]

Herb, I found the article. I was wrong. It is described as "New" Comet not a twin. It is from the Sheboygan Daily Press, August 13, 1910.

[HarleyCreation]

Herb, the earliest depiction I have of a spring frame Comet is from February 1910 and it is a drawing.
When it was first built I don't know.

The #802 list to:Leo Oconnor
210 Lincoln Ave.
Milwaukee 4 hp
Ser#18
Reg. date 05/13/1910
The #1391 list to:Wm. Koelpin
32 Burleigh St.
Milwaukee
"Comet" made by Galitiehyv(not sure of the spelling)
2 1/2 hp No Ser#
Reg. date 03/18/1911

Not sure if the last one is an actuall Comet. I've seen Comets with 3 hp and 3 1/2 hp too. I really think it all depended
what way the wind was blowing when the owners registered them and the clerk recorded them. These old records are kind of dodgy as you well know.

Let me look in my files for that stolen Comet article. I could have sworn it sadi it was a twin.

Dick

The Sheboygan stolen Comet article PROVES that they did build some with the spring fork/frame. Not just a promise or a drawing but an actual bike. That is good to know. Now we need a photo of one.

I wouldn't worry too much about hp oddities within the motorcycle regs. They are authentic enough, but many mistakes and goofs. Useful tho.

For reg #802 my notes say "Mfg by F. Kittliga" in addition to saying Leo O'Connor. Doesn't yours show that? I was hoping to verify the name, not as Kittliga but as Kittlitsch or Kittlitschko! If so, that's naming Frank (Sr./Jr.?) as the main guy and that people knew it.

BTW, Leo O'Connor later became a Harley factory guy and was their Experimental Dept foreman in the 1920s. Again, gotta wonder if he didn't have an early connection with the Comet factory. Employee?

Also: for #1391, my notes say "mfg by Galitiergo/Galitiesczo" Could that actually be Kittlitschko again??? Mfg. by Kittlitschko? I'm thinking that. Can you make it out?

[c.o.]

This is great stuff!!! I wonder if they ever caught the Comet thief. Do you fellas have any idea on how many bikes may have survived the ages? I think I recall Lonnie posting a picture of a single engine at some point.

[HarleyCreation]

Ultimate fate

This is great stuff!!! I wonder if they ever caught the Comet thief. Do you fellas have any idea on how many bikes may have survived the ages? I think I recall Lonnie posting a picture of a single engine at some point.

Notice that the stolen Comet didn't have a license plate. I'll bet half the bikes on the road in 1909 didn't get registered. Did it get recovered? Don't know. Maybe it's hidden in some barn or shed to this day!

How many survived is a mystery. Don't know of any surviving Comet motorcycle. When you look at the THOUSANDS of bikes of all makes registered back then it boggles the mind. It gets really spooky when you look at the many beautiful 36EL serial numbers of later years and you wonder what became of them. Each motorcycle ever built had an ultimate unique fate of its own. Wouldn't it be cool to know what that fate was just by looking at a serial number or an old picture?

I have to correct myself in the previous post. Leo O'Oconnor did not become the Experimental Dept foreman in the 1920s. He became the guy in charge of the Exp. Dept. test riders. Frank Trispel was the Exp. Dept. foreman at that time; later replaced by Ed Kiekbusch, the guy who didn't believe that the Harley motorcycle needed a fuse in the wiring system. Those guys were traditional.