World's Oldest Production Motorcycle

[pem]

I kinda thought it might have gone for more! There's only one that I know of.





http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=40240

[Rubone]

As in anything it is supply and demand. I don't know of too many folks who would like to have one, as opposed to other makes. And that was reflected in the final price!
Robbie

[RichO]

Not the only one.

There's several. I believe there's one in the Ford museum if memory serves me correctly.

[c.o.]

There's also one in the Trev Deeley Museum in Vancouver, B.C. I think Robbie is right on the supply and demand thing. I wouldn't refuse one if it landed at my door but it's not on my wish list either.

[silentgreyfello]

Is the Orient the first American production motorcycle? I have always thought it was, but not sure.

[Chris Haynes]

The California was first. Thomas was second.

[silentgreyfello]

The California was first. Thomas was second.

I don't know when the California was manufactured, but the Orient-Aster was started in production in 1898 with the bronze "Aster" cases for a couple of years, then the aluminum cases two years later.

I think the Thomas Auto-Bi started about 1901 or 1902.

[Chris Haynes]

As it was once explained to me California and Thomas started about the same time. When Yale purchased California they started billing themselves as the First American Motorcycle because they now owned California. This would lead you to believe that California preceeded Thomas. I wasn't around then so I can't say for sure. The California was designed by Roy Marks in the 1890's. I can't say for sure if Marks actually built any himself. Stan Dishong of Vallejo, CA had what he claimed was 1896 Marks serial number one. That bike sold at the Vegas auction for $43,000.00 in 2007.

Information from Dishong family said,"1896 Marks
Mfg as R.C. Marks 1896 to 1901, Mfg by California Motor Co. 1902 - 1904, Then sold to Yale
This Bike has engine number 1, Rear stand has 1897 patent number"

[c.o.]

Here's how Mr. Dishong's bike looked circa 1994. This pic is from "American Motorcycle Classics" by Doug Mitchell and The Auto Editors of Consumer Guide. It was said that the engine had no internal lubrication system and that the rider had to carry along an oil can so as to monitor and prevent a piston seizure! I think we know by now that Mr. Pennington got the ball rolling but production just may have started in California........

[Steve Slocombe]

I saw that Marks at the Vegas auction and couldn't tell how much of it was original. The Hildebrand and Wolfmüller was for sure original, unrestored and pretty complete, while I understand that many hundred were built in 1894/5. My guess is the auction got the price right. It must be a tough bike to ride, while the more expensive Brough is more practical and would also look good in your front room.

[Chris Haynes]

Steve,
Every hard piece of the Marks is original except the flywheel and crank. Of course soft parts like tires, belts, paint, etc. were all new. Back in the late '70's two young men came into Stan's Vallejo, CA shop and asked if he bought old motorcycles. When he said yes they took him outside and opened the trunk of an old Cadillac. In the trunk was the Marks, mostly in a basket. It was in about the same condition as the Hildebrand and Wolfmüller. It was all there except the crank and flywheel. For most of us that may have been a problem. But not for Stan. After all he had the piston and rod. With that he figured the stroke and made a new crank and flywheel. All the time Stan was busy restoring this machine he had no idea what it was. He just knew it was something very old and very special. There was no name anywhere on it. Just the number 1 stamped on it. A while after he had finished the bike a Friend came over with a 1979 copy of Road Rider magazine. The magazine had just reprinted the 1903 story of George Wyman's transcontinental motorcycle ride. This was the first motor vehicle to cross the USA.
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/hall...age.asp?id=296

[silentgreyfello]

Just for fun, I did a google search for "first american production motorcycle". Here is the first link for what it's worth. The Marks sure looks a lot like the California with the exposed flywheel. Any idea how many were made? Were they a production bike, kit bike, or one-off?

http://www.motorcycle.com/events/the...cle-45982.html

[HillbillyJim]

I would love to see the Hildebrand and Wolfmüller run. A twin cylinder, four stroke engine that is connected like a steam locomotive to the rear wheel, a surface carb and let's throw in hot tube ignition to boot! I imagine it was an adventure for the owner every time he started it. However, I am unsure of how the valves actually operated. Here is a link to a drawing on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:18...er_diagram.png
The cam appears to be directly attached to the rear wheel, not operating at half speed. The valve train isn't drawn clearly, at least not in a manner that I can make out the mechanism. Was it a latch and release type device to get an exhaust operation on every other stroke? Anybody have details?

- Jim

[c.o.]

A couple of us had the whole system explained to us last year at the Deeley Museum. For the life of me I can't recall all the details.....guess it could be sometimers...... Here's a clip of one running..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbbsD...eature=related

[HillbillyJim]

Thanks for the link to the clip! It ran surprisingly well, although I do wonder how long it took to get it started. I've never been around a hot tube gasoline engine, only a "semi-diesel" that was rather cantankerous about starting. The H-W is a very interesting motorcycle...

- Jim