popes O.H.V.

[Earl]

Is this the bike that Vince rode at Davenport one year?
If it is, that was one very fast machine.
If I remember correctly, he had some valve adjustment problems, or else it would have been one of the faster board trackers there.

[c.o.]

No Cory, you are not the only one to appreciate these pictures. I too was very impressed.
Jurassic has more skill than most and it shows. His skills at antiquing these bikes is astounding.

The only problem I see is that these bikes are not in my garage. From what I hear there are
more to come. I can't wait.

Dick

Ha!Ha! I knew some folks would agree with me Dick........ Awesome bike! Keep -em comin' jurassic!

[jurassic]

thanks guys,glad some are still interested in this old junk.we just got many ,many feet of snow last night, so i guess i'll be online for a few days.i'll try and post some more pics. earl,the bike vince had at davenport years ago was a jefferson single cylinder bike.it did spit a pushrod and rocker in the race so couldn't finish.a few months later i took that engine apart ,and it was a good thing that it didn't finish the race ,cause it was broken,beat ,cracked,wallowed out,and only seconds from a major explosion.i'll try and find some pics of it. lonnie

[Earl]

thanks guys,glad some are still interested in this old junk.we just got many ,many feet of snow last night, so i guess i'll be online for a few days.i'll try and post some more pics. earl,the bike vince had at davenport years ago was a jefferson single cylinder bike.it did spit a pushrod and rocker in the race so couldn't finish.a few months later i took that engine apart ,and it was a good thing that it didn't finish the race ,cause it was broken,beat ,cracked,wallowed out,and only seconds from a major explosion.i'll try and find some pics of it. lonnie

I'm glad you said it was a single, because that's what I first remembered. But then I started to doubt my memory when you posted that twin picture, and said it was Vince's.

Same Vince, different machine?
or
A different Vince?

[HarleyCreation]

This black Jefferson twin has the spring front but not the spring rear. Is there a story on that? For racing purposes you'd think the spring front might have bounced around and could lead to loss of control.

The OHV Waverley/P.E.M./Jefferson was one of the premier bikes of the early period and luckily we know quite a bit about it and the men involved.

Does this one have an original Waverley engine in it?

[c.o.]

After drooling over this Jefferson for awhile, I dug through some club back issues and found a couple articles written by Dick. I found the Perry E. Mack article from the Winter 2004 issue particularily interesting. If Waverley motors ended up in motorcycles, motorcars, airplanes, boats, railroad speeders, motor sleds, etc what happened to them all? Does anyone have any idea how many were built? Ah, to have all the answers would be priceless! Oh, and jurassic, is the black bike a '13 or '14?

Here's a shot of a Waverley racer from the Winter '96 issue....courtesy of Dick as well.

[jurassic]

waverly

well the twin jeff is an original waverly motorcycle engine,i am not sure of the year ,as i dont know jefferson serial number I.D. it actually is not black but is a very dark blue.the tunnel under the tank shows a very nice ,almost candy ,original paint blue.it belongs to vince martinico.

[pem]

I remember seeing that fuel tank at Davenport many years ago. It is 100% original and the only original tank known to exits. Hopefully there are more. I remember the seller wanted $800 dollars for it and I thought that was way to much and couldn't afford it. Now I would give that in a heart beat.

I only know of a handfull of Waverley motors still around. They are extremely rare. Most people confuse Perry's Waverley and Mack motors. The Waverley's were used in the P.E.M. and Jefferson motorcycles exclusively and the Mack's were the proprietary motors used in everything else. I know of only one motorcycle that used a Mack motorcycle motor because there is a photo of it.

My guess is that most of the motors were scrapped during the wars when they had huge
scrap metal drives for the war effort. As to how many were built is hard to say. Less than 500 more than 200 is a good guess.

The sprung fork on the 1912 P.E.M. was an innovation that was hyped in the ads but turned out to be not so good. There are newspaper articles talking about banning the P.E.M.'s from races because they would veer all over the place when they were at speed. Just imagine a leaf spring on your car without shock absorbers. It's like a pogo stick. The next year when the name was changed to Jefferson most of the racers used a solid front
fork.

Dick

[HarleyCreation]

Dick,

Being one of our top Jefferson experts, I knew you'd have good info.

That's about what I figured about the spring fork used on a racer. On the nasty roads of the time, however, it probably worked pretty well.

I think in the early registrations there is a "Mack" motorcycle listed. I wonder if it's the same machine there's a photo of? But no doubt more than one home-built Mack motorcycle was built.

Can't we date this dark blue Jefferson twin by whether or not the motor contains the broken valve retainer units? Wasn't that a 1914 model innovation? Lonnie, does this motor have them? Didn't we talk about this once before?

The Jefferson was a fabulous machine.

[40 Nuck]

I can't believe I missed this thread until now ... great stuff and thanks for the pics.

[jurassic]

the jefferson rigid fork

[c.o.]

Thanks for the insight Dick!

Nice work on the Jefferson fork jurassic! Here's a rather grainy shot of the Waverly rigid fork, if you can't tell from the picture, it is a striking resemblance!

[c.o.]

This thread I suppose is drifting away from the original Pope idea I guess, but we're talking overhead valves right? While we're on Jefferson's, I couldn't help but bring up Maldwyn Jones' Merkel single racer with the Jefferson head. He sure was an innovator. I get the impression, that if he thought he could get more speed from a machine then he went ahead and proved it! I like how he indicated that he couldn't use the Jefferson cylinder, so he sawed the top of the Merkel cylinder and machined it up so the Jefferson head would fit! Is there any record of this machine (or at least the engine) surviving. Again, sorry for drifting off. Maybe I shoulda started a new thread??............

[pem]

Thanks for the kind words Herb. I looked at Frank Kitlitschko's patent for the broken valve retainers(buttons) and the date is April 29, 1913 so the Waverley motor could be 1912, 1913 or 1914.

There are absolutely no production records left from the Waverley Mfg. Co. that I could find. Nor are there any records left from the Universal Machinery Co. of Milwaukee that actualy made the motors for Waverley. We may never know for sure just when and how many Waverley motors were ever built. It appears now that Frank Kitlitschko, originally president of the Comet Motor Co., may have had more influence on Perry Mack's motorcycles than we ever knew. I'll try and post the only known photo of the Comet Motor Mfg. Co. taken in 1913 when it was on Lisbon Ave. Actually it is a photo of a sign and part of the building with a motorcycle parked out front. This is 3 years after they stopped making Comet motorcycles so we don't know if they even were making motors in 1913. Also in 1914 there was a v-twin Jefferson registered to the Comet Motor Co. on Lisbon Ave. In 1910 the company was called the Comet Motor Co. and was in a garage on Galena St. a couple of blocks from Harley-Davidson. In 1913 Frank Kitlitschko was working in Jefferson, Wi. making Jefferson motorcycles. Sometimes I get so confused. There are so many unanswered questions.

And Lonnie, how do you post such nice photos and is that rigid fork one of Jeff Haberman's?

Dick

[Chris Haynes]

I couldn't help but bring up Maldwyn Jones' Merkel single racer with the Jefferson head. He sure was an innovator. I get the impression, that if he thought he could get more speed from a machine then he went ahead and proved it!

I see that by 1919 Maldwyn finally figgured out how to go faster. Dontcha love the oil pump.