'14 Harley on e-bay

[c.o.]

I just thought I'd post this and see what comes out of the comments. I personally hope that if the bike does sell that the new owner dares to ride it now and then or at least started to keep everything from seizing up. The poor bike is like a caged animal in that case. I understand the desire to protect such great early machines. But if they are never taken out and ridden, then they just become a total art object and are deprived from their original calling. Plus I guess only the folks that stop by the house will ever see the object of art trapped behind glass. Ride 'em don't hide 'em.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA:IT&ih=002

[exeric]

I saw that bike on ebay. You're right c.o., it's a beauty but it should be enjoyed and ridden. If you can't get a ride on a bike it's worthless which should apply to me more than anyone. I have a few bikes that I need to start working on so I can get a ride.

[c.o.]

Well Eric....at least your honest, but then again I think a lot of us can toss our hats into that ring. Some are just on bigger scales than others. How's that J model coming along???

[HarleyCreation]

This bike seems to be well documented and the REAL deal (not a repro with a mailbox gas tank and a faked story).

IMO, if it is just going to live inside of a glass case then it should NOT have been restored but left crusty and intact as a historical link to all that great documentation. I mean, do they take Egyptian mummies out of their tombs, plaster make-up, rouge, and fancy jewelry all over them and try to make them look shiny and new again?

A bike like this that has been fixed up like new (insides too?) DEMANDS to be taken out and ridden! Brand new paint inside a glass coffee table looks somewhat ridiculous to me.

Did you guys see that 1912 H-D single on the inside front cover of the new club mag? That is my "runner" pick from that auction which has some really nice bikes. You can see why them Harley-D's caught on!

[exeric]

You're right about restoring that bike Herb. If you restore it, then ride it. The longer I'm in this hobby and this organization of collectors the more I know that I want to get some fun out of it. It's nice to do good work and it's nice to have a "pretty" motorcycle but if the process of restoration isn't fun, and you don't want to ride your bike for fear of getting it dirty then sell it all and play the stock market. We have way too many trophy hounds and nerdy accountants making sure their lock washers are the right thickness for a 1937 EL. I'm working on a '48 FL right now and my motivation is to get a ride. I have this idealistic vision of what this bike is going to look like and how it's going to feel as I look over the handlebars and see that Guide headlight and part of the front fender. I want to barrel down the road and hear that beautiful engine sing. I want to smell paint, oil, and gas cooking off that engine after a late night ride. If this isn't why you're into motorcycles then try stamp collecting. As for my 1920 J c.o. I can't get it running with that crappy Berling magneto so I'm going to collect up the stuff to go with the generator and battery ignition. It's a fun bike to ride around on, as long as the clinchers are full of air.

[c.o.]

I agree Herb, that '12 is sweet! I tried to find it on the site, but the auction isn't listed yet. I do also have to mention that I hold you responsible for an extreme desire to acquire one of these machines some day. I used to appreciate them, but after At The Creation I've become nearly obsessed! I know a strap-tank isn't reachable, but possibly something just a few years later.........maybe or it could all be just a dream. Oh, well a man could desire worse things.

I like both of your views on what should be done with old bikes. It unfortunately has become more of an investment in a lot of peoples eyes, rather than the time machines that they should be.

Eric I can almost hear the pinging of the parked FL after that ride. You've absolutely got the right spirit. Sorry to hear about the mag on the J. I've got a relative that is in the same situation with a little Cleveland single. I've got a great little book on magnetizing if that would help at all. Or do you have bigger problems than that?

Oh, before I forget I'd like to get your fellas take on this.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh0onxo63WA

I think it could be a much cheaper alternative to have a little fun on. It would never be as cool as the real deal, but it looks like a hoot!

[HarleyCreation]

You're right about restoring that bike Herb. If you restore it, then ride it. The longer I'm in this hobby and this organization of collectors the more I know that I want to get some fun out of it. It's nice to do good work and it's nice to have a "pretty" motorcycle but if the process of restoration isn't fun, and you don't want to ride your bike for fear of getting it dirty then sell it all and play the stock market. We have way too many trophy hounds and nerdy accountants making sure their lock washers are the right thickness for a 1937 EL. I'm working on a '48 FL right now and my motivation is to get a ride. I have this idealistic vision of what this bike is going to look like and how it's going to feel as I look over the handlebars and see that Guide headlight and part of the front fender. I want to barrel down the road and hear that beautiful engine sing. I want to smell paint, oil, and gas cooking off that engine after a late night ride. If this isn't why you're into motorcycles then try stamp collecting.

That's all very true. The minute it stops being FUN then forget it. That's why it's so admirable that some guys are still throwing their old bikes -- sometimes REAL antiques -- around the race track.

[HarleyCreation]

I agree Herb, that '12 is sweet! I tried to find it on the site, but the auction isn't listed yet. I do also have to mention that I hold you responsible for an extreme desire to acquire one of these machines some day. I used to appreciate them, but after At The Creation I've become nearly obsessed! I know a strap-tank isn't reachable, but possibly something just a few years later.........maybe or it could all be just a dream. Oh, well a man could desire worse things.

I like both of your views on what should be done with old bikes. It unfortunately has become more of an investment in a lot of peoples eyes, rather than the time machines that they should be.

Eric I can almost hear the pinging of the parked FL after that ride. You've absolutely got the right spirit. Sorry to hear about the mag on the J. I've got a relative that is in the same situation with a little Cleveland single. I've got a great little book on magnetizing if that would help at all. Or do you have bigger problems than that?

Oh, before I forget I'd like to get your fellas take on this.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh0onxo63WA

I think it could be a much cheaper alternative to have a little fun on. It would never be as cool as the real deal, but it looks like a hoot!

Unless a guy is a millionaire the replica machine route is certainly a good way to go. Of course that ain't cheap either. I think any of the early single-speed belt drive jobs with the long tightener lever by the tank would be a real trip with an experience totally unlike a modern bike, but at least with the benefit of being able to "drop the belt" in an emergency.

Imagine those guys with the early direct-drive jobs hell-bent on going right on thru! Talk about REAL outlaw bikers causing mayhem. They didn't need tattoos or a nasty scowl to give the motorcycle a very bad reputation. It's such a joke when they trot out that staged beer bottle knucklehead photo and give it all the credit. We know better.

Sorry if ATC got you obcessed. I hope the kids aren't going hungry as a result....

[c.o.]

The kids are doing just fine. They often think that their father is a little insane with his motorcycle addiction, but I am glad to say my son has an interest in the early iron. I'm pretty sure he'll carry on the torch when all is said and done. As far as an early Harley goes, I'll probably just continue to use it as a subject to daydream on.

The Timeless machines go for 10k for the road model and I believe about a grand less for the boardtracker. I guess they are a relatively cheap alternative given todays values. I agree that a belt drive machine would be a "real trip" and that the original riders of these machines must have had a real reputation ridin' through un-controlled street traffic!

[HarleyCreation]

The kids are doing just fine. They often think that their father is a little insane with his motorcycle addiction, but I am glad to say my son has an interest in the early iron. I'm pretty sure he'll carry on the torch when all is said and done. As far as an early Harley goes, I'll probably just continue to use it as a subject to daydream on.

The Timeless machines go for 10k for the road model and I believe about a grand less for the boardtracker. I guess they are a relatively cheap alternative given todays values. I agree that a belt drive machine would be a "real trip" and that the original riders of these machines must have had a real reputation ridin' through un-controlled street traffic!

I'm glad about the kids, and it's good your son has that interest too.

I was thinking about the difference between early Harley belt vs. chain models while doing research on motor 4188D, a 1913 single "9-B" model, which was chain drive (9-A being belt).

Not having ridden either one, I wonder how different in rideability these two models would have been? The chain would have had a rear-wheel clutch (Free-wheel control), and the belt model a belt-tightener AND a rear-wheel clutch.

You gotta wonder what the pros and cons were between belt and chain at this time with Milwaukee being such long-time stauch advocates of belt. What did the riders say? What did the dealers tell customers? Were belt users considered old-fashioned? That big pulley (so quaint looking today) does give the bike a more primitive look.

Yes, the Timeless would be good fun machine wouldn't it? Now if I just had 10 grand in loose change lying around....

[exeric]

I remember reading a Marsh-Metz brouchure that claimed the advantages of belt drive and how it was the perfect transmission. Then look at Indian that made very few belt drive machines and claimed chain was the way to go. Well, M-M and Indian were both in Mass. and we know who won that battle.

C.o. the Timeless looks like a lot of fun. Probably more fun that an original because you wouldn't have to worry about it and you could ride the beans out of it. I'll bet that if you rode one enough you could find out what these old bikes were really capable of when they were new.

[HarleyCreation]

I have long been interested in the various drive-methods used on the early machines, 1901-1912 or so. I don't think that the ins and outs of the various types and how they operated are widely understood. That there were advocates of various types of drive (and sub-types, i.e. different types of belts), makes it even more interesting. Plus the fact that Indian favored chain and Harley belt gives it even more pizzaz.

You'd think somebody could get a Timeless-type repro on the market for less than $10,000. These early jobs are SIMPLE in design and construction with very few parts considering. There ain't much to them.

One guy that built a repro "1903" Harley (actually a 1905 "Model 1" as we now know), he used modern lawn mower parts in the engine and concealed a little modern carb inside a fake Harley looking carb. That would be another route, altho I think sticking to the original design would be my first choice -- by far!

If I had to pick a year model to mass produce in replica form (well marked as such of course) it would the strap-tank 1905 "Model 1" H-D and no mistake, or maybe with spring fork (1907-08). But I would certainly accept the c1909-10 design without complaint.

Funny H-D, Inc. with all their great wealth and business expertise hasn't glommed onto this idea yet. (Hypothetical H-D ad: "Own your own Serial Number One, exactly like the first Harley-Davidson ever made, that went over 100,000 miles without a single replacement engine part! Own one either as a glass enclosed mahagony coffee table display ($4,999.99 extra) for your home or office, or use it as a running bike to show off to your friends and business associates." (Long safety and liability disclaimer follows including: "We do NOT suggest or advise that this motorcycle be actually ridden or operated in any manner, but only offer it for display purposes in running condition so you can listen to its original "potato-potato-potato" sound, which because it's a single we define here for legal purposes as "spud-spud-spud-spud-spud.")

Well?

[c.o.]

It would be nice to see a chain drive vs. belt article in the magazine. I would really be interested in a comparison. If Barry from Canuckistan reads this by chance, he may have some insight.

As far as repro's go, I stopped in Sturgis on my way to Davenport last year and took in the museum and had a visit at Competition's shop. I found their strap tank replicas pretty amazing, but if I recall correctly, they were quite a bit more valuable than the Timeless.

Ah, man if Harley jumped on the bandwagon, we'd have to see the new/old bikes riding around in the back of Harley/Ford pickups, with the drivers dressed in official time period motorclothes wear!

[HarleyCreation]

Oh man! I didn't think of that. A whole new department in MotorClothes selling period stuff for early repro bike owners!

Actually, that would be pretty cool.

[c.o.]

It's back on again...........art is pricey......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1914-...QQcmdZViewItem