Another unknown Wisconsin Motorcycle?

[pem]

Here's a copy of a photo I obtained 30'ish years ago. Not my photo. Forgot about it till now. Looks to be a P.E.M. frame or Jefferson frame with a Mack V-twin motorcycle motor. Only v-twin Mack motorcycle motor I have ever seen that I remember. Looks like it might have been repainted too. Hard to tell. Can't make out anything written on the tank either. Don't know the rider or the location it was taken. Never saw another like it. Very rare photo. Perry Mack never made any production Mack motorcycles so this must be a home built. Bike has tandem seat and carbide headlight and tail light. Looks to have a speedometer too. Looks like he might be holding something in his right hand. Hat or helmet? Sharp dressed man! Anybody recognize who the rider might be or where photo was taken?

[pem]

This is the watch pendant that Ralph's daughter wore most of her life. Here he was on an Indian.

[pem]

Ya Badger, I'm going with Indian too for now. Thanks for your response.

Eric, I have to go over the information I received from the grand kids. Ralph's daughter out lived her own kids.

Later

[exeric]

Looking closer at the 1st photo, I can see that the header pipe has the same radius as the front frame tube. Look forward to hearing more from the Sporleder archives. Hope that works out, Dick.

[brettxlch]

I like that pick....I could read and look at all day those 1st gen bikes...

[pem]

Looks like 2 header pipes out of a single cylinder head. I agree that the handlebars are U-joint Indian bars and probably Indian forks, and the tank looks Indian. That is a noodle scratcher, Dick.

Hi Eric, this photo shows the left side of the bike. It doesn't look like the 1910 Waverley Ralph was riding in Milwaukee. It is not a Waverley motor for sure. And the forks are different. Don't know the exact date of the photo. Ralph made a copy of the 1909 Bleriot monoplane in 1911 and was a finish carpenter his whole life so he had the skills to build or assemble a bike and possibly a motor. The 1911 newspaper article said he was looking for a motor to put in the plane.

The trophy was one of three I got to hold in my hands recently. Earliest was from 1907. They came from Ralph's daughter who passed away a week ago. Hard to believe. The family has trunks of letters and such to go through. The daughter told her grand kids she remembered "those Davidson boys" and Bill Harley. She had an original photo of Ralph on his 1910 Waverley motorcycle that appeared in the Wisconsin Motorist in November 1910. It hung on her bedroom wall her whole life. Oh my, if she had letters from Ralph from his days racing Harley's and working with Perry or Lacy Crolius no telling what we might learn. One can only dream.

Dick

[exeric]

Looks like 2 header pipes out of a single cylinder head. I agree that the handlebars are U-joint Indian bars and probably Indian forks, and the tank looks Indian. That is a noodle scratcher, Dick.

[pem]

What is it?

Just obtained some new photos. This was taken on an unknown dirt track. Possibly Milwaukee State Fair mile. Pre 1912. Ralph Sporleder is the rider. Looks like Indian handle bar and maybe fork. Is the motor an Excelsior? Ralph was known to ride Harley's starting in 1906 and Indians and possibly Excelsior's. I believe he was the 3rd person to ever win a race riding a Harley-Davidson in 1906. Walter and Perry being first and second.

Thanks

[exeric]

How true, how true, Chris.

[Chris Haynes]

Thanks for the kind words Eric. This particular clipping was sent to me by a fellow antique motorcycle enthusiast. I can't take credit for finding it. Over the years I have exchanged many research items with other enthusiast. Sharing this type of information is what our hobby is all about.

Information is free. Parts cost money.

[pem]

Thanks for the kind words Eric. This particular clipping was sent to me by a fellow antique motorcycle enthusiast. I can't take credit for finding it. Over the years I have exchanged many research items with other enthusiast. Sharing this type of information is what our hobby is all about.

[exeric]

You dig up the most amazing gems of lost history, Dick. Your determination, and research will remain in perpetuity via the internet; because the internet never forgets. . . Well, at least until the next nuclear war and humans go back to living in caves, and eating bugs. Seriously, I very much appreciate your efforts, and that you share your hard work with the old motorcycle community.

[pem]

Ya hey, came across this May 13, 1908 Milwaukee Journal newspaper clipping that I forgot I had. Should have been included in my Comet Motorcycle article. Thought this thread is as good as any to post it so it is in the public record.

Pretty much answers the question was the Comet motorcycle influenced by a pre-1908 Harley-Davidson. That would be definitely yes. Frank Kitlitchko was selling his "In excellent condition" Harley that he owned while building/designing his 1908 Comet. I'm guessing it was a 1906 or 1907 model Harley. And we can assume the same thing with the Advance motorcycle too. By May 1908 the first Comet motorcycle should have been finished. Along with the Advance.

Dick

[BigLakeBob]

Looking through the 'The Antique Motorcycle' magazine winter 1995 and found this which is some additional info for some of the above mentioned models.Mechanical Details p. 30.jpgMechanical Details p. 31.jpgMechanical Details p. 32.jpg

[pem]

Peter, thank you. I'm going to print them off and keep them with my research. It will be interesting going through them and comparing the info. We should be able to come up with some kind of figure but it would only be a educated guess.

By the way I rode your south island back in the early 2000's for three weeks. I'd move there in a heart beat but you Kiwi's have very good immigration rules to keep out crazy Americans. Good for you. We would only ruin your beautiful country. Not me of course. Ha Ha. I met a man from Wisconsin who road a farm tractor all over the island as his primary transportation. He was a character. I forget if he lived there or was on a Visa.

Loved riding through the Buller Gorge. Managed to avoid getting a speeding ticket some how. I have some really good memories.