available colors in 1914 ????

[amsracing]

I went to the official HD web site to find out about colors for my 1914 twin 10E...Bob form HD sent me to Pierce Color rite...to see colors they offer and read the info..
Some say that all bikes from HD in 1914 were grey.and others don't agree..
The HD website says once HD offers a bike a color then it is then always available on a custom order basis?
Does this mean black is a possible color that the bike could be done in and be correct?
I saw 1914 twin in Red ,maybe done for a Fire dept?
can any one tell me more..Lonny mentioned that he had restored a 14 in very light off white a few years back....what is the answer? please help...thanks,Dave

[c.o.]

Dave,

While Renault Grey was the standard color, that isn't to say there weren't other possible options if you special ordered. I know in the earlier years you could still get Piano Black but I can't say for sure as to whether they offered that as late as '14. I've also seen a '14 finished in red but it wasn't original paint so your guess is as good as mine. I guess I wasn't a whole lot of help here, hopefully somebody with a little more knowledge in the paint department can chime in.

[Chris Haynes]

You could order your 1914 any color you wanted, as long as it was grey.

[silentgreyfello]

Grey. Never seen an orig paint bike or photos of one that was anything but grey. Not that there wasn't another color that someone had custom painted, but I have never seen documentation to prove it.

There is dispute on the broad stripe, dark grey vs. blue. The orig paint '14's that I have seen up close (about 5) were all dark grey. Hatfield's book touches upon this controversy. All I know is that you are safe with the dark grey, bordered by red, centered with gold.

The grey by Colorite is NOT correct for 1914. I have used it, and then later bought an orig paint bike and parked it right next to it. Not the right shade, nor the right tone, but I suppose close enough if it's not next to orig paint.

[sirhrmechanic]

Keep in mind that in that era, it was very common to repaint a vehicle almost as soon as you bought it. It was very easy with lacquer and you brushed/rubbed out the finish anyway. There was no spray gear.

Ford (any color you want as long as its black) actually had a number of colors available up into early 1914. Red, Blue, brewster green, black and a couple of others were available. The "Black only" color came in as production hit insane numbers in the 1914-1915 timeframe and the black color was chosen as standard because it dried marginally faster than any other color. If your time-motion studies showed a few minutes savings on paint drying... you saved millions of dollars. And Ford Did.

The result was 'paint kits' that were both inexpensive and plentiful. If I can find it, I'll post an ad for a "Paint your Ford" kit that included brushes, colors, pinstriping brushes, thinner, sandpaper, etc. etc. etc. I think it was $5.00. You brushed the paint on sanded it back until the color was changed and it was smooth. Then polished it. Lacquer was relatively delicate, so it would not be uncommon to paint a vehicle every few years and annual touch-ups were routine.

Wheel repainting was a big business for automotive service. I read somewhere that there were dozens of 'wheel repainting' shops in NYC alone. You would take your car in and they would sand and repaint the wheels, which probably took a lot of abuse on city streets, in slush, and with curbs, etc. Took a day and was an annual event to primp up the spoke wheels.

So just because something seems to have 'original' paint, doesn't mean that it wasn't painted before it was even ridden. If a factory wouldn't paint something, you can bet that for the right amount of money a dealer would paint it. And every little town had a coachpainter, a pinstriper and a sign painter, who could put a 'factory' finish on anything the customer desired.

It's also an interesting question for judging... Is a bike only 'original' as it left the factory? Is a bike original as it left the dealer? Is it 'wrong' to restore a bike to a finish that its first owner requested, required or executed? My rule with antique cars (coachbuilt, anyway), is Never say Never and Never say Always. Because just when you think you know everything, something throws a monkey in the wrench and you find something new... It's a bit different for highly-mass-produced items.

But to Chris Haynes comment above "Any color as long as its grey..." by the 1920's, HD was competing against car makers and losing the 'basic transportation' battle badly. So they went after the enthusiast market. That required things like custom colors, options, gear, accessories, etc.

Does anyone KNOW for sure when HD started taking special orders? Or if they turned them down 'for sure' in the early days? Did they not paint bikes for police departments? Or Army sales?

My hunch, but I can't prove it, is that during the Edwardian Era, where customers were pretty well-heeled and could afford to indulge their whims, most companies had a 'Yes Sir, we can do that Sir" policy, at least to some degree. Ford notwithstanding... most automakers worked that way. I would assume H-D had a desk somewhere to handle the interesting requests.

Anyone know for sure?

Cheers,

Sirhr

Cheers,

Sirhr

Cheers,

Sirhr

[amsracing]

Bill, thank you for the picture of the 14.....not sure what I'm learning here...anything is possible? and yes I have seen a blue stripe with red pinstripes on the outside edges and a gold stripe in the center and also the pintriping on the frame and fork done in either Black or Red? any ideas here...I really would like my 1st Harley Project to be as correct as possible and not my version of it.....stock is GOOD! thank you all for your help...keep talking to me please....Dave Boydstun

[silentgreyfello]

1914 twin

In my opinion, the striping on the frame would have been black or dark grey in 1914. I think they gave up the red in 1912, but I could check my notes/photos/books. Could you have a custom paint job in '14? I suppose. Show me the proof to make me believe! Later years, yes.
DSC00419.jpgDSC00418.jpgDSC00415.jpg

[amsracing]

thank you for those great pictures Dave Boydstun

[Slojo]

Stripes,,,Gray,,,Blue,,,My 13 original appears to be a slate BLUE, With a little spray from a can of WD-40 the BLUE color jumps out at you, it is not GRAY ! The fine line stripes on my bike are RED. I know during 1912 HD used BLACK on many bikes for fine line stripes. The original 1914 I used for example while building my 1914 Ghost for cannonball 2010 was painted much the same as my 1913.

I know of no bikes that have come any other colors other than gray during the 1909 to 1916 time frame. I will also say that I am not a 110 years old so I was not there to witness what came off the line..

Contact Dewy for a copy of a disc of the orig. 1913 I sent him. It is with several hundred photos of the 13 under different lighting and angles it is complete and will answer any questions of a 13, which is as close to a 14 as possible

Joe

[denismccarthy]

Our Restoration Team is heading up to Milwaukee on the 17th to visit the Harley Davidson Museum. I will broach this subject with our guide Bill. Its a very interesting thing. I have never heard of, before this thread, that Harley Davidson had any sort of "custom order" program in place back then. I would like to see any documentation that supports this argument. I have a reprint of the "Harley Davidson Colors Used During 19xx - 19xx" at the Museum. I will review it tomorrow. Its hard for me to believe that at the time the idea of a "Custom Order Harley" was available. That just sounds a little odd to me. But its possible! I'll sure look into it.

[denismccarthy]

To Silentgrey

I'll send you some interesting pictures of our original 1913 Single tomorrow. I think you might like what you see! That bike looks very original!

Take care

[silentgreyfello]

Slojo, I would love to see pics of your 13 as well. I have some of Barry's wonderful '13 twin someplace. If memory serves me correctly, it had the dark pinstripes on the frame, similar to the '14 that I posted pics of. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, though, if they are red. Speaking of variations, I once heard an old timer say that from 1911 to 1913, singles had red tank decals, twins had gold. However, I have seen where that is not always the case. I have some pictures of different OP '13's that I will try to post on here.

Denis, pics would be great! Sent you a message w/ my email address. Thanks!