190?? injun bottom end,help wanted

[Old n Rusty]

i bought this bottom end thru the well known auction site not long ago......i dont exactly know what it is and im eager to find out the yr..............what im guessing is 1907-09 but dont actually know.

it is 3 stud and pretty small.......any help greatly appreciated
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[c.o.]

If I were a betting man, I'd say you've got an '09 there. Hopefully someone can chime in with a difinitive answer. That bottom shot shows that you just may have some pretty interesting projects!!!

[Old n Rusty]

[IMG][/IMG]thanks for the feedback! yeah,i have a bunch of bikes in the works mostly old stuff,my boy helped me split the case on this early yale this eve,he is only 2 but he already loves the old bikes

what tells you 09? i was curious about the oil pump/cam cover..........still a novice

[jurassic]

indian changed alot in 1909. they went from the diamond frame to the loop frame. this made it neccasary to change the way the engine mounted into the frame. thus the motor plate system was employed, which meant they had to redesign their cases. the 1909 cases were also the first ones to have the oil sump cavity underneath the flywheels, which gave the bottom of the cases a flat look instead of rounded cases like the previous years. in 1909 indian offered a 2 3/4 hp 19 cubic inch single, a 7 hp 61 cubic inch twin, and a 5 hp 38 cubic inch "light twin". the small twin and single engines both had 3 stud cylinders ,where as the 7 hp twin used a 4 stud cylinder. also in 1909 indian was testing their new oil pump ,but only on the racing models. the automatic oiler was not used on production bikes until 1910. in 1910 indian offered 2 singles the 2 3/4 hp single {3 stud cylinder}, an a new 4 hp single {4 stud cylinder}. they also offered the 7 hp twin {4 stud}, and the 5 hp light twin {3 stud}. all 1910 engines employed the oil pump. it is not clear to me whether indian offered the small single and light twin in 1911, but i dont think they did. so best guess on the lower end in question is 1910. here is a picture of a 1909 5 hp light twin engine. no oil pump ,larger more modern cam cover, flat bottom cases, 3 stud cylinders, this was also the first year that the gear drive to the mag used 4 gears.

[Old n Rusty]

thanks so much!!!!!! i love history,learning and of course old bikes.........was hoping it could somehow be a camelback (gotta get me one of them someday) but the good news is i actually have most of a 1910 indian laying around.........thanks again for the precious knowledge! when i get gritty with the "10" project i will add to this thread

[exeric]

I would love to see pictures of that 1910 O n R. A number of years ago I had an opportunity to trade into a 1909 Indian twin that had a later fork. I really didn't know what I was looking at then, so I probably made the right decision to pass. Now I wish I could renegotiate.

[jurassic]

here is a picture of a small single and a big single ,to see how they differ.

[Old n Rusty]

kick ass!!!!! thanks jurassic!

looks like i gott find a top end of the small variety,if anybody has one please let me know,even if i could borrow it to recast my own

[jurassic]

lucky for you indian put the vin number on alot of other parts on the engine, including the cam cover. i would be interested to see what letter is stamped there.

[rwm]

are you going to repair the case's you bought or recast them?

[Ross]

Lonnie..Would we assume correctly that the A in the number makes the cam cover in the pic a 9?

[Old n Rusty]

cool stuff!!!!!! i had a really good feeling i would discover its true identity/number with the associated included parts.......will definately take pics and let you guys in on the whole build.........

i have a poopload of stuff going on right now so in the meantime i will try and find parts so when i can get serious on it i can get serious on it............i am pretty certain the cases can only be used as templates to recast new cases,they are really ate up,im a true dreamer but even i know when things are screwed.....i wont ever throw any of the original parts away,if i recast or recreate i will keep the crusty old stuff all together....make a "sit there" "art" bike with the unusable stuff to sit next to the reborn bike

[Old n Rusty]

hey guys,so i am looking for a picture or info on the 1910 light indians. what im wondering is if they were still incorporating the 09 front ends on the light versions or did 1910 all have the new front end?

what i did find is a notice that paul derkum had a 1910? 2 3/4 hp single stolen and recovered but i cant find i picture of any such animal.........any help greatly appreciated

[mcarver]

Lonnie..Would we assume correctly that the A in the number makes the cam cover in the pic a 9?

That would be correct, "A" designated 1909, "B" was 1910 and so on with the F head Hedstrom engines. Powerplus experts chime in as I'm not sure on the numbering after 1915 when the main (domestic?) Hedstrom design production ended.

[c.o.]

Mike, 1916 had an F, G and H model as well as the two stroke K. I have an engine on the bench with an H stamped in it.