Patents Covering Vincent Rapide Engine?

[HarleyCreation]

Anybody know if there were patents issued covering the Vincent Rapide-type high-cam engine held by Phil Vincent or Phil Irving or anyone else that Harley-Davidson might have been afraid of?

Because in researching Harley-Davidson's high-cam KL prototype of the 1950s, I found one source ("Harley-Davidson Data Book" p. 87) that claims under "H-D Board Minutes" for 1953 that the KL motor was dropped due to "patent restrictions" with the Vincent motorcycle company.

That sounds like a statement of fact, but no one from Harley whom I interviewed mentioned any patent issue. That's not to say that a patent issue didn't possibly exist, however, in searching around I have not been able to find any reference to engine patents covering the Rapide-type engine. The "H-D Data Book" does contains mistakes, including errors entered under "Board Minutes" so I'm suspicious about the veracity of the claim.

Thus I'm wondering if you Vincent guys can set the record straight on this patent issue. Were there any patents covering the Vicent Rapide-type engine? If there were can you give me the patent numbers or an online source where I can look at them.

PS: I posted the same question on the British Vincent Club website, but in spite of many reads, no one has responded yet. Rather odd, because if somebody asked about Harley patents on the AMCA forum ten guys would jump in and reply.

Thanks!

[Cass]

Vincent

Greetings Harley
Just a suggestion, try this web site
www.thevincent.com seems quite extensive.
Good Luck

[PRG]

Howdy Chaps,

...likely won't find it at the Vincent.com, let me call Somer and get back at you.

[PRG]

Howdy Herbert,

Somer was not aware of any patent issues, rather, HD bought a used Rapide, disassembled it, put it back together with the exception of that indecipherable clutch and sold it to well known Vincenteer- Gene Aucott - and then....proceeded to go back and chase Al Crocker around over HIS patent violations.

(just kid'n on the last part)

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by PRG
Howdy Herbert,

Somer was not aware of any patent issues, rather, HD bought a used Rapide, disassembled it, put it back together with the exception of that indecipherable clutch and sold it to well known Vincenteer- Gene Aucott...

Very interesting! I thank you for checking.

Yes indeed, that was standand Harley policy of buying competing brands and looking them over. In part 1 of the XL "Secrets" story I alluded to H-D's possible look at the Rapide engine for their KL design, but it seems like you Vincent guys have verified it.

It's possible that such an inspection became twisted around over time to involve something about patents on the Rapide engine.

[PRG]

Howdy Herbert,

Going through an August 82 Vincent club publication here recently and found a xerox of the letter relating to HD's sale of that Vincent after they'd done their testing/analysis...note that sale price!

[HarleyCreation]

Howdy Herbert,

Going through an August 82 Vincent club publication here recently and found a xerox of the letter relating to HD's sale of that Vincent after they'd done their testing/analysis...note that sale price!

Great stuff! That's an amazing first hand document we all like to see. It's funny too. That the H-D factory couldn't seem to figure out the Vincent clutch once they got it apart. Probably they didn't care. The date of the letter is good because it fixes a time when they were done with the Vincent and didn't need it any more. Also interesting is that they had a few different German motorcycles there too.

I know H-D looked at foreign bikes almost from the very beginning. As early as 1909 they were trying to get info on foreign makes. I have a photo of a 1920s Brit single they had. And I just was in contact with an old guy who bought the BMW that Harley examined and copied when they designed the Army XA.

Thanks!