Best Triumph (Brit) USA Book?

[HarleyCreation]

I've been largely a Harley (and BMW) guy. I never had a Triumph, but jumped over all the Brit bikes by going from a 1967 Honda 160 to a Harley 74 Panhead in the early 1970s. My pals mostly had Brit bikes: Triumph, BSA, and Nortons. But those makes always remained something of a mystery to me.

Now I find myself getting interested in the 1950s and 1960s when Triumph was King. I just interviewed a retired "top-ten" Triumph dealer from those years and his stories from the Triumph perspective were very good! In fact, guys from his shop riding Triumphs would go to the Harley Rally and cause trouble. They considered Harley riders back then to be more "sedate" in his words.

So anyway, I'd like to study up on Triumph in America and wonder if there's a decent book out there telling that story? Not so much a British-based history, but one telling about Triumph (or all the Brit bikes together) in the USA during the 1950s and 60s with a little British background.

Thanks!

[Smarty]

It's about time you turned to the darkside and learnt about a decent motorcycle for a change !!

http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Motorc.../dp/0879387467

Smarty

1939 Triumph T100
1939 Triumph 5T Speed Twin
1961 Triumph 5T Speed Twin

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Smarty
It's about time you turned to the darkside and learnt about a decent motorcycle for a change !!

http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Motorc.../dp/0879387467

Smarty

1939 Triumph T100
1939 Triumph 5T Speed Twin
1961 Triumph 5T Speed Twin

(Blush-->head hanging)

Yeah, that looks like "the" book all right, but it's an out-of-print high buck item.

Maybe I get a library copy of it.

[Smarty]

HC,

You could try this very reputable UK retailer, who seem to have it for £20.95

http://www.whsmith.co.uk/whs/Go.asp?...6&affId=935910

If you want as they don't ship to the US, I'll get it and send it over ?

By the way, thoroughly enjoyed your book, as I also have a '25 J in addition to my british stuff (Triumph never made a decent pre 1930 twin to be able to use in the vintage runs over here in the UK).

Regards,

Smarty

[petri]

Triumph in America

Herb;

Before going the overseas route you might try this. Lee and Mary Cowie own Motorsport which sells and distributes british vintage motorcycle magazines here in the US. Lee also has a huge selection of british motorcycle books and other european make books for sale. He may have this book.

I just can't believe some of the prices for books on the used book sites. It used to be a great way to find books at an affordable price but not any more.

Call:
636-488-3113
or:
motorsport@socket.net

Good Luck
Howard

[HarleyCreation]

Thanks for the suggestions on this book. I'll get it one way or another.

I found a comprehensive online time-line for Triumph motorcycles. Not sure how accurate it is, but it seems pretty good. The following info comes from that site:

http://www.ianchadwick.com/motorcycl...ph/time03.html

Says that in 1946 only about a "dozen" U.S. Triumph dealers.

1949: By end of year 100 (new?) Tri dealers signed up...12,000 Triumphs made/60% exported...sales of (all?) British bikes to USA 4,275 machines this year (compared to 25,107 to Australia).

1950: Turner establishes US-based Triumph Corp., in Maryland, a wholly-owned east coast distribution company created to serve eastern US markets. Denis McCormack, 48, is first president. After 1950, more Triumphs would be sold in the USA than in any other country, including Britain...Britain is the largest manufacturer of motorcycles in the world.

1951: Harley Davidson complains about Triumph's progress in racing and marketing to the US tariff Commission, demanding a a high duty (40%) on all imported motorcycles. They claim Triumph is 'dumping' its machines at artificially low prices.

Oops! Did I say accurate: "In December [1951], Harley Davidson announces a 45ci knucklehead to compete with British bikes."

Anyway, this does set the scene for the "top-ten" Triumph dealer that I interviewed. He got his dealership in 1954 and I'm guessing a big boost for Triumph came after the movie "The Wild One" came out about that time. He did say that the movie helped Triumph dealers a LOT. Website isn't providing later import numbers that I see.

This dealer knew Turner and the other big shots too.

[Smarty]

"1951: Harley Davidson complains about Triumph's progress in racing and marketing to the US tariff Commission, demanding a a high duty (40%) on all imported motorcycles. They claim Triumph is 'dumping' its machines at artificially low prices."

Harley tried this stunt again in the early 80's under the Regan administration aginst the japanese imports..........just goes to show HD can't stand the competition.

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Smarty
"1951: Harley Davidson complains about Triumph's progress in racing and marketing to the US tariff Commission, demanding a a high duty (40%) on all imported motorcycles. They claim Triumph is 'dumping' its machines at artificially low prices."

Harley tried this stunt again in the early 80's under the Regan administration aginst the japanese imports..........just goes to show HD can't stand the competition.

This "top-ten" Triumph dealer had some pretty interesting stuff to say about THAT!

I have some of that testimony. I'll have to dig it out. I'd like to see the import numbers for 1946-1963 just to see if/how Triumph took off like a rocket as it seems....

[Cass]

Triumph History

Dear Harley Creation,
Just go to amazon.com & you will find several books by David Gaylin on this subject. He wrote Triumph in America & also Triumph Restoration 50's & 60'sw on plus some early stuff. Hope this helps as these are bibles for Triumph restorers.
Good Luck
Cass

[AFJ]

Re: Best Triumph (Brit) USA Book?

Originally posted by HarleyCreation
I've been largely a Harley (and BMW) guy. I never had a Triumph, but jumped over all the Brit bikes by going from a 1967 Honda 160 to a Harley 74 Panhead in the early 1970s. My pals mostly had Brit bikes: Triumph, BSA, and Nortons. But those makes always remained something of a mystery to me.

Now I find myself getting interested in the 1950s and 1960s when Triumph was King. I just interviewed a retired "top-ten" Triumph dealer from those years and his stories from the Triumph perspective were very good! In fact, guys from his shop riding Triumphs would go to the Harley Rally and cause trouble. They considered Harley riders back then to be more "sedate" in his words.

So anyway, I'd like to study up on Triumph in America and wonder if there's a decent book out there telling that story? Not so much a British-based history, but one telling about Triumph (or all the Brit bikes together) in the USA during the 1950s and 60s with a little British background.

Thanks!

Two basic references for Triumph motorcycles on this side of the Atlantic are:

"Triumph in America" by Lindsay Brooke and David Gaylin. published 1993 by Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI. ISBN 0-87938-746-7

"Triumph Racing Motorcycles in America" by Lindsay Brooke published 1996 by Motorbooks. ISBN 0-7603-0174-3

Al Johnson
('67 Triumph T100C Trophy)

[HarleyCreation]

I think we're all talking about the same "best" Triumph book here (Triumph in America) but it's out of print and apparantly a high-buck item on the used book market. Too expensive for me at least. Esp. since I haven't even seen the contents, altho were it reasonably priced, I'd get a copy right now.

Question: Does that book contain Brit bike import numbers from say 1946 thru the 1960s?

Not just Triumph, but all Brit imports?

[Cass]

Told You

Just go to Amazom.com & you will find the Books I told you about, byLindsey & Gaylen. Trust me as I am an AMCA Field Judge for British!
Cass
PS: Just check out the 2006 Triumph Calendar

[HarleyCreation]

Re: Told You

Originally posted by Cass
Just go to Amazom.com & you will find the Books I told you about, byLindsey & Gaylen. Trust me as I am an AMCA Field Judge for British!
Cass
PS: Just check out the 2006 Triumph Calendar

Cass,

I do trust you. Honest. But when I go to Amazon.com and find that book it comes up with a the lowest used price of $110.24. That is too rich for me, esp. a book that I haven't even seen to judge the value of its contents.

Amazon.com
Triumph Motorcycles in America by Lindsay Brooke and David Gaylin (Paperback - Jul 1993)
Used & new from $110.24

[AFJ]

Originally posted by HarleyCreation
I think we're all talking about the same "best" Triumph book here (Triumph in America) but it's out of print and apparantly a high-buck item on the used book market. Too expensive for me at least. Esp. since I haven't even seen the contents, altho were it reasonably priced, I'd get a copy right now.

Question: Does that book contain Brit bike import numbers from say 1946 thru the 1960s?

Not just Triumph, but all Brit imports?

For full year-by-year import figures your Federal Dept. of Commerce or your motorcycle industry association would be the accurate sources. Brooke and Gaylin "Triumph in America" do give some figures on sales as they seem important to the commercial history and the actual total production can be estimated from serial numbering system, which is given in detail.

For example, the 1970 sales of Triumphs in the US were around 30,000 bikes (in a market where more could have been sold if they had been available) and serial number records indicate a total production of about 35,700 Triumphs of all sizes from 250cc to 750cc. 1968 (pre-Trident and pre-T25) production had been just under 29,000 twins.

In 1969, as a comparison, Honda in the US sold over 30,000 CB750 Fours. By 1970 Honda had nearly 50% of the total motorcycle market followed by Yamaha at around 30%, followed by suzuki, Kawasaki and BSA/Triumph (together) in 5th spot at 6.9%

The book gives some interesting partial figures for US motorcycle imports. In 1960, sales of all motorcycles in the US were less than 60,000; in 1965, 609,000 motorcycles scooters and mopeds were imported to the US. 465,000 of these were Japanese, 69,974 were Italian, 33,406 were of British origin.

In 1963, Triumph sold 6,300 new motorcycles in the US, by 1967 the official ordered build program of Triumphs for the US market was 28,700 units (18,200 for the Eastern market, 10,500 for the western market.

Broken down by distributor the build orders were as follows:

Johnson Motors in California: T120R - 2100; TR6R -1600; TR6C -2100; T120TT - 500; T100R-1,300; T100C -1200; T20M- 1700

Triumph Corp. (Eastern US): T120R - 8800; TR6R - 3900; TR6C - 700; T120TT - 400; T100R - 2,000; T100C - 1400; T20M - 1,000

Note that there were often differences in specification between Eastern and Western specification Triumphs at this time.

The 1967 US order was 26,000 Triumph twins; serial number records indicate a 1967 actual build of 28,100 Triumph twins.

Hope these figures are of some interest.

Al Johnson

[AdminGuy]

Hi Al, Would TRI Corp. eastern US) would have been Roy Burke?

I think export models were bound for the USA. General export models went to common wealth countries. Is that correct?