M21 has reversed polarity and overcharge issues?

[wzuccarello]

Hello all, I have figured out the performance issues on my newly acquired slogger, so now I am trying to iron out charging issues, so here's my short history and details with it

I ran the bike without a battery a bit while figuring out engine quirks. The horn worked but didn't try the lights for fear of voltage spikes without a battery possibly burning them out.

I bought a new 6 v sealed 4.5 AH battery to try, and here's the results. The lights work with the battery installed engine off. I started the engine and with a little throttle the amp meter goes way over on the discharge side so I stopped engine immediatly. I checked the battery and assured negative was grounded, and it was. Checked the regulator, dynamo and lights were all marked 6v.

I then checked the leads with a multimeter and no battery. The output from them is reversed and I am getting around 16v negative from the hot lead when the engine is revved, and about 6-8 v idling. I tried the battery for a few seconds with pos ground, and the ammeter still goes way discharge reading with rpm increase.

So anyone have any opinions, ideas or experience with this? Seems I saw some data somewhere about a method of polarizing the dynamo but lost the location. Could that be what it needs?

One of my buddies that rode Beezers way back said they referred to Lucas as the Prince of Darkness LOL.

Thanks, Wayne

[frichie68]

Sorry I can't (seriously) answer your question, but I found a link pertaining to Lucas that might explain your problem(s). Has your smoke escaped? Check this out: http://www.ece.rochester.edu/courses...ials/smoke.pdf
Rich

[wzuccarello]

LOL nope, smoke is still in there. I just found a short article written by Lucas explaining how to polarize the dynamo. Also found the wiring diagram for this bike and discovered that the "D" wire from dynamo to regulator is missing. I need to fix this and also check the polarity of the ammeter connections.

[BoschZEV]

I checked the battery and assured negative was grounded, and it was...
... tried the battery for a few seconds with pos ground, ...

Also found the wiring diagram for this bike and discovered that the "D" wire from dynamo to regulator is missing.

When I saw your first post I inferred from what you wrote about neg./pos. grounds that you very likely had not even checked the wiring against a wiring diagram before posting your question. By the time of your second post you had found a wiring diagram and discovered a essential wire is missing. This illustrates why it is difficult to help people with electrical issues.

The fact you are getting output at all means there are other wiring issues, since "D" on the regulator is connected to the the output wire from the generator (dynamo) itself. That is, there should be no output at all at the "D" terminal without this wire.

FYI, the four terminals on the regulator are labeled F (for field coil), A (ammeter, i.e. the output terminal from the regulator that takes the full current from there, through the ammeter, and on to the rest of the bike), D (dynamo, i.e. the output from the generator), and E (earth/ground). All four must be properly connected or it won't work.

However, the fact the regulator has two sets of mechanical points, along with its age, very likely means it will not work properly even once you have the wiring on your bike connected correctly. If the regulator itself (which may be newer or older than the bike) was made in the early 1950s it has holes that allow the current or previous (or both) owner to screw it up even worse than it was when they began "adjusting it." Later ones had covers crimped on in the vain hope of stopping owners from doing this. Anyway, in addition to this, even if the regulator had been functioning perfectly when the bike was taken off the road, the points oxidize when they sit without having been used, and the higher (or much, much higher) resistance they likely have will keep the regulator from functioning. There are ways to check and correct this, but it's beyond the scope of this Forum to get into that.

[AFJ]

LOL nope, smoke is still in there. I just found a short article written by Lucas explaining how to polarize the dynamo. Also found the wiring diagram for this bike and discovered that the "D" wire from dynamo to regulator is missing. I need to fix this and also check the polarity of the ammeter connections.

I have sent you a private message.

AFJ

[wzuccarello]

I have sent you a private message.

AFJ

PM sent to you.

[AFJ]

PM sent to you.

Information sent.

AFJ

[BoschZEV]

smoke is still in there.

I have sent you a private message.

PM sent to you.

Information sent.

If the NSA is following this thread, you two could be in big trouble...

[AFJ]

If the NSA is following this thread, you two could be in big trouble...

American security has not been breached in any way. I simply asked for wzuccarello's email address so that I could send him copies of Lucas service manuals for the various electrical system components in question and a copy of the wartime handbook for British military motorcycle electrical systems.

Simply trying to help another AMCA member in improving his old British motorcycle.

As far as the NSA eavesdropping on telecommunications amongst private individuals, my understanding is that this has been going on since the early 1940s - in my country as well as yours. Other forms of communication have been "screened" even earlier. And all this surveillance activity has been public knowledge, since that time, in my country at any rate, to anybody who read newspapers or looked at government budgets.

AFJ

[frichie68]

If the NSA is following this thread, you two could be in big trouble...

I sincerely hope you are joking.
Rich

[wzuccarello]

Well, it isn't right, but i'm sure that all of our electronic correspondance is being stored by the NSA . Even this mundane stuff here. Now, I'm quite outspoken about our Govt. on my Facebook page, so they surely have a file on me. :~)