Your AMCA Board

[Tommo]

Steve,
It seems to me as a member from half-way round the world that whenever these blow-ups occur and you sit back and analysis what caused them two major issues appear.

Issue 1;
The board has not given any advance notice of actions they are taking that directly effect the membership and to the average member this appears as a "stuff you we'll do what we want" attitude which only serves to alienate the board from the general membership and breed unrest amongst everybody.
From your comments it appears the board are aware of this problem and are taking steps to address it but in my opinion the board has a very long way to go and must realise that it needs to release a lot more detail on the moves they are making to run this club if they are to improve the situation.

Issue 2;
Board selection or how a member gets onto the board is a major issue and to me it appears that whenever this subject is raised and serious question are asked about changing the way the board is formed all sorts of smoke screens are thrown up to hide this subject and it gets swept under the carpet once again.
Selection onto a governing body should not be decided by those on that governing body as it only breeds unrest and an impression of an old boys network.
If, and please note I said if, you have one or more bad apples in the barrel how do you remove them?
I feel it is more than time for some form of democratic elections to take place to elect the board members and that every member should have the right to a vote. Without the members money there wouldn't be a club.
I feel it is time for the board to poll the members asking them whether or not they want a change to the constitution of the club that would allow the positions on the board to be decided by democratic election.
In NZ law governs that such a constitutional change needs a 75% majority so maybe that could be the benchmark, poll the members the members, it would only need a voting paper to be included with the magazine mailout, and if you get a 75% or better vote for change you as a board should have no doubt as to the way the general membership feels.

I hope the above is received as constructive criticism and before anyone asks no I don't want to be a board member.

[longhorn]

Tommo said it the best.I agree with Tommo 100%.

Ken Kalustian
#2065
The great state of Texas

[bmh]

I have a question. How is it that 2 of the 3 people listed as officers and directors on the clubs annual report, as submitted to the Florida Dept of State on 1/5/2010 are not actually directors of this corporation? By Florida State law it would appear that the only true " members" of the club are the Board of Directors. The rest of us would be "contributors". Kinda like being a member of your local arts society, only instead of a key-chain we get a magazine. So while 2 of those folks may be on the board of the Foundation, as far as the club goes they would just be plain ole contributors, just like we. Yet the rest of us it would appear need an invitation just to spectate on club business. And that brings me another question. What type of an organization was this prior to being incorporated in Florida on 4/17/2006? OK, that's two questions.

[bikerdds]

Tommo, I had the pleasure of attending your 25th anniversary Indian Owners Registry of New Zealand Rally last month. Your group gets along great because everyone is allowed to have a voice in what goes on. The floor was open to anyone who attended. Everything was rather informal and non confrontational. Your annual meeting was open to all who attended and anyone could speak up who wanted to. Nigel and James did an awesome job with the rally. We have no such open meeting. Until the AMCA opens up the board meetings and board positions, and members are democratically elected to the board [by the members at least to some positions] we will always have a veil of secrecy. Steve has done a reasonable job of informing us of what goes on with the board, but so far has side stepped why they refuse to allow direct member involvement after 50 years[they don't want our involvement because it is still a good old boys club]. We are supposed to just accept their wishes and be expected to keep quiet. The board is perhaps for the first time ever facing a large amount of discontent because of lack of openess, especially after the mistrust that came about when the foundation was separated from the club with no club involvement or notice to the club. It doesn't matter whether it was correct or not. There was a total of around $800,000 split between the club and Foundation with NO notice to the club until well after the fact. The club also has no say in what goes on with the foundation! Even other clubs in Britain and continental Europe perform more openly [and I'm sure professionally] as per Steve himself in that the meetings are open to the members, minutes [in their entirety or on tape] are published, as is the fiancial statements. I have never seen an organization of this size with such antiquated methods of conducting business. To have a budget for the first time in 50 years is beyond comprehension with the amount of money the club has. To say we are hurting financially when no consistant financial statement has been posted is uncalled for. If we are hurting, show us the facts. It does not have to wait for the next magazine. Post it online NOW for us to see. We can only move forward if there is openess. If we want to remain a strong club, we need the best people available to help run the club and that will only happen as time goes on with more member involvement.

[LouieMCman]

Thanks Tommo, I brought up your issue 2 about two pages ago with no comments except that it was mentioned something about being a chapter member which has nothing to do with getting on the board. Since no one has explained how to get on the board, I will have a shot at it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
First you must be nominated by a board member. And then voted on by the board members. That about sums it up.
Of course I would hope being a active chapter member would be a stepping stone to being voted on to the board, but I don't think it's a prerequisite.
I'm also not interested in the job but I would vote for a change to a more democratic process.

Louie Hale
#3449

[Tommo]

Louie,
It's a serious, major issue that gets pushed under the carpet whenever it is raised and it's about time the board realised that this is an issue that needs addressing and that side-tracking any discussion on the subject just makes it worse.

[BONES47FL]

AMC Board...

Take a look at the Porsche 356 Registry and the U.S. Parachute Association and how they run things. Members get the vote! It is an equitable and democratic process for both organizations; it serves everybody quite well. I should like the same process in this great club. Long-time member of all the above. Thanks for listening...Bones

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, well that was pretty clear and I'll do my best to make sure that the OPENNESS/DEMOCRACY item gets put on the membership survey so we can see what the whole membership thinks. Anyone who knows me will say I'm the least likely person to be a good ole boy, and the Board seems to be doing a poor job of recruiting in its own image. The recruitment method itself is certainly mysterious and old fashioned. In my case, five or more years ago, Pete Gagan the then President asked me if I'd ever thought about serving on the Club Board. I said I hadn't, but I'd be interested, put in a resumé, then didn't get elected the first time but did the next time, along with Raymond Dhue. Richard Spagnolli, Rick Najera, Red Fred Johansen and Matt Olsen have come on since me, and it's hard to see a pattern except for an active desire to help the Club. At Eustis I spent 4 hours in a Steering Committee meeting, 9 hours at the Board Meeting and 8 hours judging, and would have preferred being out at the swap meet with the old bikes for at least some of that time. There is a list of members willing to serve on the Board, but it is not a long one. With judging, you arrive home a day late and, if you haven't been abused by one of the owners, you think you've had a good time. Likewise with the Board Meetings, except that the abuse seems more frequent. The reason we do it of course is because we love our Club and the old bikes, and are prepared to donate a few hundred hours of our time to it each year.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Brian, sorry I don't know the answer to your technical question about the accounts, but will ask Raymond Dhue our Club Treasurer.

On the FOUNDATION questions, a carefully drafted two page document went out to Chapter Presidents, but I can give you my personal view on what has been a fundamental change for the AMCA. You will remember how slow moving our Club is: well, it turns out we had managed to be registered for many years as a 501.c.3 company which I'll call a charity, when we should have been a 501.c.7 company which is a non-profit club. The reason we can't be a charity is that our members benefit from putting ads in our magazine, vending at swap meets and so on. When the IRS found out, we were told to reorganise pronto, and the Feb 2008 Board Meeting found us with the attorneys sitting in and guiding us through quite a few legal formalities about winding up the old company and forming two new ones - the AMCA Membership Club and the AMCA Foundation. The Board voted to split the old AMCA assets down the middle to form the two new organisations. We were also told the IRS wanted little or no overlap between the two Boards, so over the following months Pete Gagan and Dennis Craig moved over to the Foundation. The Club loaned several Directors to the Foundation to get it started, but now Ray Dhue is the only Director on both Boards. The Foundation has recruited other Directors, such as the Doerings, and has a mission to educate the public about antique motorcycles. The IRS rules mean the Club can give money to the Foundation, but the Foundation can't pass money back to the Club.

So the AMCA Foundation is a totally different organisation from the Club, with its own Board and finances, and that chunk of the old AMCA Treasury is not coming back. I don't see the minutes of the Foundation Board meetings, but shall ask for them. Dennis Craig, now the Foundation President, wrote an article in the last magazine and if you read it then you're as up to date as I am. The fine museum exhibitions put on by the Foundation use loaned AMCA Club member bikes, and they seem to be doing a good job in educating the public about our hobby. I wish them every success.

[bikerdds]

Tommo, I have been told that any club member is free to submit a resume to get on the board at any time. They still ultimately vote for who they want. There never is any information published in advance saying there will be an actual opening and to actually submit a resume. In all reality, submitting a resume is a smoke screen if you haven't actually been asked. Just ask Robin Markey, the most knowledgeable person probably in the world on Indians who has lived and breathed Indians his entire life, working on them every day in the last original Indian shop in the world. He tried for ten years and still was passed up. Internal politics? You bet! Qualified entrants need not apply.

[bmh]

Dear Brian, sorry I don't know the answer to your technical question about the accounts, but will ask Raymond Dhue our Club Treasurer.

On the FOUNDATION questions, a carefully drafted two page document went out to Chapter Presidents, but I can give you my personal view on what has been a fundamental change for the AMCA. You will remember how slow moving our Club is: well, it turns out we had managed to be registered for many years as a 501.c.3 company which I'll call a charity, when we should have been a 501.c.7 company which is a non-profit club. The reason we can't be a charity is that our members benefit from putting ads in our magazine, vending at swap meets and so on. When the IRS found out, we were told to reorganise pronto, and the Feb 2008 Board Meeting found us with the attorneys sitting in and guiding us through quite a few legal formalities about winding up the old company and forming two new ones - the AMCA Membership Club and the AMCA Foundation. The Board voted to split the old AMCA assets down the middle to form the two new organisations. We were also told the IRS wanted little or no overlap between the two Boards, so over the following months Pete Gagan and Dennis Craig moved over to the Foundation. The Club loaned several Directors to the Foundation to get it started, but now Ray Dhue is the only Director on both Boards. The Foundation has recruited other Directors, such as the Doerings, and has a mission to educate the public about antique motorcycles. The IRS rules mean the Club can give money to the Foundation, but the Foundation can't pass money back to the Club.

So the AMCA Foundation is a totally different organisation from the Club, with its own Board and finances, and that chunk of the old AMCA Treasury is not coming back. I don't see the minutes of the Foundation Board meetings, but shall ask for them. Dennis Craig, now the Foundation President, wrote an article in the last magazine and if you read it then you're as up to date as I am. The fine museum exhibitions put on by the Foundation use loaned AMCA Club member bikes, and they seem to be doing a good job in educating the public about our hobby. I wish them every success.

So then, totally leaving the foundation out of this discussion for now, are Dennis Craig and Roger Smith currently (or at least as of Jan. this year) members of the board of directors of this club? Or are they just regular "contributors" like us?

[dcraig]

So then, totally leaving the foundation out of this discussion for now, are Dennis Craig and Roger Smith currently (or at least as of Jan. this year) members of the board of directors of this club? Or are they just regular "contributors" like us?

Brian, I retired from the club board as of 12/31/09. I am a dues paying AMCA member as I have been since 1976 and plan on continuing to be as long as I continue to wake up above the grass and not under it.
Dennis Craig, President, Antique Motorcycle Foundation

[pete reeves]

Hi Dennis.
Antique Motorcycle Foundation?
Has the title of the AMCA foundation been changed?
Pete Reeves .860

[fillibuster]

Brian, I retired from the club board as of 12/31/09. I am a dues paying AMCA member as I have been since 1976 and plan on continuing to be as long as I continue to wake up above the grass and not under it.
Dennis Craig, President, Antique Motorcycle Foundation

Oh, btw, nice hat, Dennis!
I see you are listed as a "junior member" of this forum, with your acknowledged humility evident in your statement. Welcome to the forum.
Question: Did the guys on the Foundation board think they had retired to the peaceful green pastures that didn't have to account to anybody? I really mean that light-heartedly, not incitefully, because I feel that most things are just fine in the AMCA, with a few exceptions, but we can accept most imperfections if we're mature enough.
However, even in maturity it is prudent to ask for re-assuring answers to specific questions, such as with the financial actions between the AMCA and the Foundation. Some of us are solvency-focused.
Another question regarding heirarchy: Who's the boss? you or Rocky? or the board? or do we just hope we never have to deal with something like that?

You've been around a while (not meant as an insult!). While I believe that the AMCA branch will take care of its problems, I'm still interested in an experienced hand's (your) perspective. For instance, didn't we have a little chaos when Pete Heintz introduced the new judging system? It didn't take an act of God to smooth things out then, did it?

just what you needed, a pack of wild hounds in your pasture! yip,yip,yip!

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Phil, the AMCA Club and the Foundation are now set up as separate companies with separate Boards, goals, management, and funding. Dennis Craig is President of the Foundation Board, and Rocky Halter is President of the Club Board. It's taken me a while to understand the changes, and I've been pretty close to it. The Club is a not-for-profit membership organisation with the main income being membership dues, and the goals being around having fun with old motorcycles. The Foundation is a charity initially funded by the old AMCA treasury and aiming to educate the public about our hobby through museum and other activities. It is quite different from the old AMCA days of just a couple of years ago, and we couldn't go back even if we wanted to.