judging frustration

[duffeycycles]

VPH-D,I was not offended & I agree both parts books & Palmers books are not easy to read & understand.As I said I believe Bruce more than the parts books.I know some people are stuck on the parts books because that is what we had but I have seen many mid year changes in many years,much like Chris has stated

[Chris Haynes]

Parts books were printed before production for that year began based on the knowledge at hand. Often times something changed during production. The 1937-1939 parts books were great at telling you when some items changed. For instance they will point out that the first 123 EL's used a different timer than the rest. This because none of the parts of the later timer will interchange with the early unit. If a later part will interchange the change is not mentioned. Like the design of the '36 EL oil tank went through several changes but they are all interchangeable.

[vph-d]

Duffy,
I did not mean to slight your knowledge of parts books, but to agree with your statement regarding the differences between what the books state vs what came on the bike.
VPH-D

[Chris Haynes]

I have seen factory invoices to the dealer where bikes were shipped missing parts.

[duffeycycles]

VPH-D,I have been reading factory manuals for 40 years.I know what it says.
Bruce even mentions the difference between the parts books & known original bikes.

[T. Cotten]

What if..., Folks,..

Some of the final assembly occurred at the dealers?

"As it left the factory" might require a crate.

....Cotten

[vph-d]

The factory parts books can be very misleading, even if you're familiar with them.
VPH-D

[duffeycycles]

In the past a Harley was judged mostly against the parts books for a given year/model.
I see differences in the parts books compared to Bruce Palmers restoration guide books.
In particular I'm talking about electrical clips.
Do we now judge against the HD parts books or Palmer's books?
I tend to believe Bruce on this one.
What do you think?

[Ross]

The context of the era would certainly have to play into how such a system would be archived.From what I hear, there are a lot of people who would love to go to one site and see some pretty good examples of a particular model. No matter what comes of it, it could never be perfect. But sometimes, something is better than nothing at all.

[jwl]

Love the idea of winners circle bikes recorded. Second time I heard that request this month. Something to be seriously figured out.Thanks for the comments.

It may be something to think about but please consider this: I had a 55FL restored 20 years ago. It was a finely restored motorcycle and I had it judged 3 times and it made winners circle easily. 20 years ago the quality of repop parts was not what it is today. There were not many repop parts on the bike but the control cables were vinyl coated, the muffler did not have the seam, etc. etc. Date codes were not scrutinized as closely either. If that bike were judged today it may not even make a Jr. 1st. Now just because it was awarded winners circle in 1997, would it be a candidate for being archived just because it has a winners circle award? It was a great restoration in its day but I doubt that it would be one for the archives by today's standards. Just posting as food for thought.

[Ross]

Love the idea of winners circle bikes recorded. Second time I heard that request this month. Something to be seriously figured out.Thanks for the comments.

[Fetch]

I'm new to this but I have an observation after presenting a bike for judging the first time. As flawed as the judging system maybe and as frustrating as it may be that more could be done, I think it's a valuable asset of the Club. There will always be "Trophy Hunters" you can't control somebodies motivation. But, I found the system to be educational, I learned from it and hope to present a more acurated bike the next time. The more that is identified as incorrect, whether during the Junior or Senior class, is only an opportunity to improve.

And as mentioned, having the winners circle bikes videoed and archived would be great!

Just my 2 cents.

[Paps]

I have discovered many details that were previously not known, while restoring my 42WLA. That was part of the rewards for my research. What I discovered are known now.

[T. Cotten]

Nice one Ed.
Every one of my motorcycles are original paint bikes. I painted it or somebody else painted it. Still original paint.

Don't forget the air in the tires, Len!

It would take something like fourteen refills to eliminate all the original air.

The government told me that.

....Cotten

[len dowe]

Just put a sign on your bike like I have in the past. “100 Point Rider”. If it gets me to where I want to go and back home it scored a 100 Points. Ed

Nice one Ed.
Every one of my motorcycles are original paint bikes. I painted it or somebody else painted it. Still original paint.