judging frustration

[T. Cotten]

Tom,
Where do you think information is found, I get it from original unmolested bikes, and there are plenty out there to choose from and they are not getting molested or restored. The members that restore motorcycles usually know enough not to restore a piece of history or are informed to take the right path on these machines. What is wrong with taking a pile of parts and making a factory correct bike out of it, we have been doing it successfully for years and enjoy getting them judged by our peers. The history is out there and readily available, a good way of obtaining it is by participating in the judging and doing your research through networking with other members. I see no problem with restoring an original part that has been repainted or refinished several times to the original factory finish to recapture it's history. The AMCA judging system is set up so that each bike starts out at 100 points and points are deducted using guidelines to get the end result of the quality of the restoration, not one bike judged against another to get the biggest trophy as you allude. You should get involved in the process so you can better understand the system, try being an apprentice on a team and be part of the solution instead of part the problem. Sure it is not perfect, but only us volunteers can make it better and better it will be.
Carl

Carl!

Of course I know where we all get our information.
Its just as judges get it for Horex, Bultaco, or Allstate machines, I presume. Right?
How many expert judges are at each Meet for each forgotten marque?

When judges depend upon memory, casual consensus (like a coffeetable book), legend, anecdote, and hearsay,..
that's "Lore", not "Data".
(Think 'Second Generation Star-Trek', I think.)

And please refrain from putting words in my mouth. (Sarge has tread in there enough already.)
I said nothing about "taking a pile of parts and making a factory correct bike out of it"

They are ALL piles o' parts!

Until AMCA judging divorces trophy mentality,
the judging system will continue to lose credibility, and eventually all legitimacy, if it hasn't already.

Consider if you had a historical home,
wouldn't want it on a roster of historical places?
It would document your piece of History, aid its preservation, and validate some of your prolonged investment as well.
Please show me where we can research the machines the AMCA has judged over the decades?

And I don't mean the trophy results, and I don't mean their lists of "faults".
I mean the valuable information ignored by the system, as if the judges were omniscient, and the next owner of a similar machine must start blind to previous discovery, or the game doesn't work.

With today's pixel power, there is no excuse for failing to study each machine in depth for future review,.. and make it available for the good of vintage motorcycling.
As it is, the system is a pox.

It would take the greasy smile of a diplomat to get this ship off the rocks, and coursing for the next half-century;
'Tis thee, Uncle Carl, 'tis thee.

....Cotten
#776

[murph]

To you owners out there take lots of detail shots when you are assembling your bikes and start a blog showing your work to share with others so we can learn more from each other. Lot of you follow Matt's blog already and I personally have seen increased quality in judged bikes because of it, but not everybody is working on knucks and pans, so let's all join together and share as much information with each other as we can. IT'S ALL ABOUT OLD BIKES
Carl Olsen[/QUOTE]

I have done quite a few early ch sportsters which went to the winners circle and I documented all of them. If any one needs any info I'd be glad to help.

[murph]

How the heck do you quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs so there in a window?

[Sargehere]

How the heck do you quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs so there in a window?

Write "[QUOTE*=murph]" (leave out the asterisk I put in to make this example non-functional or else it would "disappear") and leave off the quotation marks. That begins a quote string. End the Quote string by inserting a "/" in another marker: [/QUOTE*] all strings must start with [instruction here*] command, and end with one like it:[/same instruction here] . You don't need the "=" and name. just "QUOTE" and "/QUOTE" will give you the gray box:

Little Miss Muffett sat on a tuffet

If you put a pair like "[CENTER*] and "[/CENTER*]" at either end of a photo ID, like from Photobucket, the photo wouldn't show up on the left margin, but in the middle of the page. Done on text, it centers each line:

A
Boy
Can't
Decide
Everything
Functions if
Gravity reverses
Hourly on the hour.

[Chris Haynes]

Fran Blake's cousin. An impeccable source of Harley factoids. No one is better. He called me and we jawed for an hour. That was only the skin off the top, barely scratched the surface, but I wasn't takin' notes. Sorry, Chris!

I doubt that you have ever met Fran Blake as he lives in my hood here on the left coast. But his cousin Bruce Palmer III lives not too far from you.

[Sargehere]

Tut tut, Chris! I knew Fran Blake when he owned his gray Navy UA. Before his next kick for "discovering" WWII training sites in the desert. Haven't been in touch with him for years, tho.

[Chris Haynes]

Tut tut, Chris! I knew Fran Blake when he owned his gray Navy UA. Before his next kick for "discovering" WWII training sites in the desert. Haven't been in touch with him for years, tho.

Fran got out of bikes over 25 years ago. He is into military trucks now.

[T. Cotten]

If there is anyway to get this thread back on track, then let it be about documenting your machine.

We all should bow in humility to this kind of dedication: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/02...est=latestnews

Don't need no steenking trophys with a provenance like that.

....Cotten

[Sargehere]

Thirty nine cents a gallon? Must'a been Hi-Test! I remember 29.9¢ regular and 34.9¢ "Ethyl." Occasional 24.9¢ Regular and a nickel more for Hi-Test. That was about all through the '60s, up until the A-rabs figured out that they could get at the Israelis through US, the Israeli's allies and military suppliers, during the 1973 war.

After that, nothing, but nothing, was ever the same again! People realized that oil ran the world economy; food got to market in diesel powered trucks, airline tickets were dependent upon the price of JP-4 and -5 and...

[Sargehere]

Fran got out of bikes over 25 years ago. He is into military trucks now.

Yeah, he got me interested in the MVCC, Military Vehicle Collectors' Club. About 90% were Jeeps of all stripes, and 3/4-ton Dodges, and everything up to tanks, and I personally knew a guy with a Half-track that he drove on the roads, and in re-enactments around Fort Knox.

They don't make steel-reinforced rubber-band tracks for them any more, unfortunately. The last source were being made in Israel. They used US Half-tracks long after anyone else.
If you run in to him, be sure to tell him hi from me, Chris. We corresponded into the '80s.

[fillibuster]

How the heck do you quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs so there in a window?

murph, I use the "edit" in the top bar on the screen. First, drag the mouse over the words you want to highlight: the words should highlight, or shade blue. then hit the "edit" and scroll down to "copy". Then, in your post, where you want the quote included, go back to "edit" and hit "paste": "quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs" .. then add qu marks, or "quoting that blow-hard Sarge" or something like that!

Thanks Carl, you've already made judging more fun!
peace, bruth's

[fillibuster]

How the heck do you quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs so there in a window?

murph, I use the "edit" in the top bar on the screen. First, drag the mouse over the words you want to highlight: the words should highlight, or shade blue. then hit the "edit" and scroll down to "copy". Then, in your post, where you want the quote included, go back to "edit" and hit "paste": "quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs" .. then add qu marks, or "quoting that blow-hard Sarge" or something like that!

Thanks Carl, you've already made judging more fun!
peace, bruth's

[Rubone]

murph, I use the "edit" in the top bar on the screen. First, drag the mouse over the words you want to highlight: the words should highlight, or shade blue. then hit the "edit" and scroll down to "copy". Then, in your post, where you want the quote included, go back to "edit" and hit "paste": "quote sentences out of peoples paragraphs" .. then add qu marks, or "quoting that blow-hard Sarge" or something like that!

Just highlight it, hit control c, open your new post, enter the quote brackets, and insert it by hitting control v. It is in there!
Robbie

[fillibuster]

Just highlight it, hit control c, open your new post, enter the quote brackets, and insert it by hitting control v. It is in there!
Robbie

dum-de-daah..."
nope
control v did nothing

[T. Cotten]

Just highlight it, hit control c, open your new post, enter the quote brackets, and insert it by hitting control v. It is in there!
Robbie

Alas, if only saving the judging program was so simple.

....Cotten