Save Our Judging

[tomclay]

"almost unknown Peter Heinz, who did the most to modernize the system "

Yeah the same Peter Heinz who judged a bike that was not even at the meet.
Let us not forget.

[Lonnie]

The facts are that the old American-made motorcycles are now priced beyond the reach of someone wanting to get into antique motorcycles, unless of course Daddy is loaded. Even the Brit and Japanese bikes do not seem to be followed by a young crowd. Granted, there exceptions to any rule. But in reality, who can afford a knucklehead in todays market?

The question is what happens to our old bikes? I predict that a majority of the exceptional examples will end up in museums, here and abroad. There will remain riders floating at a basic price. For those who just want to ride American, I predict the trend will be Evos - a very reliable machine which does not require much in the way of maintenance and there are many low mileage examples remaining, enough to meet demand for many years.

As an example, look at shovelheads. With the availability of Evos the price is dropping and has been for several years. Even a slab shovel, unless it is very nice, has trouble breaking $10K, in spite of what you see folks asking for them on Ebay - look at the completed listings!

At some point the bottom of the market will be found, I would guess in 20 - 25 years when us baby boomers all drop dead. We are the group that created this demand here in the US. Look at the demographics of Corvettes and even the new Harleys - baby boomers are the big market and when we quit buying when we retire since our funds are then constrained, there goes it all!

[46EL]

With the passing of another Member of this Club isn't it about time for us to stop and think about some issues. A few years back in the magazine a profile of the members ages was published. I hope someone can post a link to it somehow for everyone to look at again. Better yet maybe another Census should be taken and we all should look at it and think about the whole situation. If I remeber correctly there were not many members below the age of Forty? In 20 to 25 years what will this clubs membership consit of? I know here in New England with the passing in the last few years of Jay, George, Paul, Rick, Dave and Carrol I see quite a few less faces at out local meets. There are probably a few more faces gone I cannot think of at this time. Have any of those members been replaced with any younger ones? Personally I don't see it here? Anyone who is a book of knowledge and has spent a lifetime helping others trying to build something for the future does not need to be discarded like the days trash. It is hard enough to find anyone young today who has any interest in old Motorcycles. Then go and try to find someone who has the interest, time and ability to educate themselves to a level of someone like Robin Markey. Somebody really dropped the ball and isn't thinking. Too Bad.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear George and Kyle, I didn't judge any Panheads at Eustis. Are people mixing me up with someone else?

[Paps]

Wow ! That's a good parable Paps. I know I led this topic off course but it's because I'm just not as upset about judging as I am about how judging has become a matchstick for igniting the de-moralization of the whole club. I mean, judging is not that big of a deal and it's not a very big part of the AMCA. Judging is a big deal for some people but to a majority of people within the whole membership of the AMCA, judging means nothing. The most important thing to a majority of the members is the magazine, and how well the board members and chapters handle the administration of meets, road runs, and membership problems. I know a lot of older members who have no interest in judging and only care about when the magazine is due. For instance, how many different people have responded to this topic on the forum since Eustis ? 20? maybe 30. Out of 11,000 members that isn't even a mosquitoe bite. I agree that there are accountability questions with the AMCA but I prefer to direct my inquisition to questions about the "Foundation" and how that mess happened. The thing that turned me off on this whole judging thing was the suggestion on this forum, that maybe someone should physically assault Steve Slocombe at one of our national meets. Is this the kind of club you want to be in ? That may be cool in the Hell's Angels or the Outlaws but this is the AMCA And that is not what Ted Hodgdon, Henry Wing, and Emmett Moore had in mind when they started this thing 56 years ago. Again, we're in the AMCA meet season; let's have some fun.

Excellently put Eric. The Chapters do an exceptional job of hosting the meets. The magazine is awesome. As you said, no one should make any physical threats. I am not going to allow the issues at hand to deter me from enjoying any of the meets I attend. There is plenty of time during the off season to bare down on those issues. Between meets, there is also plenty of time to get things set straight. There is also plenty of time between meets to put actions into motion in preparation of a possible battle during the off season. Hopefully the straight path will arise and a battle can be avoided.

[kval]

I don't remember anyone making that suggestion. I do remember warning Steve that it could happen.

Chris
to remind you what you said
"I would hate to find myself in his shoes. Imagine walking around at a meet not knowing exactly when and where some disgruntled member will have a serious heart to heart talk with him."

that does not sound like a physical assualt

[Chris Haynes]

The thing that turned me off on this whole judging thing was the suggestion on this forum, that maybe someone should physically assault Steve Slocombe at one of our national meets.

I don't remember anyone making that suggestion. I do remember warning Steve that it could happen.

[exeric]

Wow ! That's a good parable Paps. I know I led this topic off course but it's because I'm just not as upset about judging as I am about how judging has become a matchstick for igniting the de-moralization of the whole club. I mean, judging is not that big of a deal and it's not a very big part of the AMCA. Judging is a big deal for some people but to a majority of people within the whole membership of the AMCA, judging means nothing. The most important thing to a majority of the members is the magazine, and how well the board members and chapters handle the administration of meets, road runs, and membership problems. I know a lot of older members who have no interest in judging and only care about when the magazine is due. For instance, how many different people have responded to this topic on the forum since Eustis ? 20? maybe 30. Out of 11,000 members that isn't even a mosquitoe bite. I agree that there are accountability questions with the AMCA but I prefer to direct my inquisition to questions about the "Foundation" and how that mess happened. The thing that turned me off on this whole judging thing was the suggestion on this forum, that maybe someone should physically assault Steve Slocombe at one of our national meets. Is this the kind of club you want to be in ? That may be cool in the Hell's Angels or the Outlaws but this is the AMCA And that is not what Ted Hodgdon, Henry Wing, and Emmett Moore had in mind when they started this thing 56 years ago. Again, we're in the AMCA meet season; let's have some fun.

[Paps]

Show me where you can spend $30 and get more value for your money. Like a friend of mine says; if you go to an AMCA national meet and don't have fun, you're at the wrong place and in the wrong club. I got just as P-O'd about the "Foundation" debacle as anyone. . . It still makes me mad, but we're into the AMCA meet season and everyone should be as happy as monkeys. If you go to these meets with a chip on your shoulder, you're going to have a lousy time. Cheer up.

No argument there. But the issue is not about the value members receive for their dues. Its about the extra do and don't receive crap that is in the light at present. These things do not cost money. Look out !! Another of Paps Examples !! Two prositutes.....both really really hot ! Both equaly skilled in their profession !! One has aids and the other doesn't. Same price for either. I'll just overlook the aids problem on the one and focus only on the fun I'll have. It's what I get for my money that counts anyway.

[exeric]

Show me where you can spend $30 and get more value for your money. Like a friend of mine says; if you go to an AMCA national meet and don't have fun, you're at the wrong place and in the wrong club. I got just as P-O'd about the "Foundation" debacle as anyone. . . It still makes me mad, but we're into the AMCA meet season and everyone should be as happy as monkeys. If you go to these meets with a chip on your shoulder, you're going to have a lousy time. Cheer up.

[Paps]

I first joined the AMCA in the mid 70s and the dues were $12 or $15. Here it is; 35 years later and the dues are $30. We still get 4 magazines (bigger and better I might add), meets and road runs all over America and now Europe, and this free web site. . . . I mean, what do you want for your $30 ?

How about honesty, open books, and respect for those dues payers ? That car looks great on the outside but what's under the hood ?

[exeric]

I first joined the AMCA in the mid 70s and the dues were $12 or $15. Here it is; 35 years later and the dues are $30. We still get 4 magazines (bigger and better I might add), meets and road runs all over America and now Europe, and this free web site. . . . I mean, what do you want for your $30 ?

[gmarakas]

Robin, it is clear that having the facts straight is of no interest to the monarchy calling itself the AMCA and representing itself as "our board." I have great respect for Carl Olsen but he has missed the pitch on this one. The simple fact, Carl, are that your simple facts are simply not facts.

This has no longer become a club for the members, it has become a club for a select few who wish to impose their world views on the masses. If you don't like it, then get out of the way.

Maybe it's time for a new club for people who simply want to enjoy the hobby of vintage restoration? This hostile takeover is the product of our current leadership. Don't wait for Rocky to fix anything. It has been "fixed" already.

The AMCA has done some amazing and wonderful things in the past. It is sunk to its lowest depths with this one, however. The new regime must consider themselves to know all and see all. I hear Steve Slocombe judged a 65 Panhead in Eustis. He is amazing with what he can suddenly know. Simply amazing.

There are two clubs now. Rocky's boys and the rest of us who wonder what just happened to our club. I hope some rational thinking appears soon.

[Robin-M]

Oh Fred, by the way, my 36 Chief with the sidecar, that's been restored and on the road since 1982 will soon receive it's "30 YEARS ON THE ROAD" since restoraton pin. 30,000 plus miles and still a winner's circle. See you on the road

[Robin-M]

I didn't mean to drag the entire quote in here, just the part where you mention control over the BOD, myself, and Rocky, by Steve Slocombe.
I consider myself friends with each party mentioned here, and also the mentioner. (I hope they all still feel this way also?). Anyway, I don't see any control issues with Steve S over myself, or anyone else on the BOD, nor the Judging Committee. I find Steve S. to be very intelligent, out going, and all for the cause. He usually pays his own way to the meets, even when he is eligible for reimbursement. I find Steve S. to very active for our judging and for the Club in general.
It sure seems like way too much personal sensitivity has infected this thread, and it hasn't accomplished anything. We've all had our ideas kicked around, and sometimes squashed while on the Judging Committee. I thought I had some valid ones, but they didn't get voted in. We moved on. We continue to move on. Sure, I don't agree with some of the dicissions that the Judging Committee, and/or the Board has passed, or failed, but I only have one vote, and we move on.
Our current Board is as diverse as it has ever been in it's history. I see no trace of any favoritism, or control by anyone, over anyone else. I'm sure that Kevin would attest to this also. I can assure you that Steve S. nor anyone else has any control over me. Not on the Board, nor on the Judging Committee. I do admire and respect his enthusiasm to improve our Club, and it's Judging, just as I admire Robins, and everyone else involved.
I just received my 30 year pin from the electricians union. 25 of those years were mostly spent running jobs, and crews. We would deal with every walk of life, personality, race, religion, etc....with the crews. Many times we didn't see eye-to-eye, or get along. But if that guy I didn't like was the best pipe bender, then I focused on the job to be done, not if I liked the guy. We had a building to build. I didn't have to like him, just get the job done. Usually, by the next job, after successfully completing the previous, everyone got along.
We have some judging issues to iron out, and we can't be bothered by hurt feelings, and personalities.
UN-Controled ! RF.

Fred,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I haven't had much computer time lately due to being SO busy with phone calls and emails and letters. I love to listen to you dance around the topics and keep bringing in non-related topics. The problem is this situation was handled thoughtlessly, without knowledge, common sense, and experience, and I love your contradictions. I believe that you're too close to the situation, and being part of the situation, to see what's really going on.

Sorry about the mistake on union electicians, my only job my whole life is motorcycles. AND I've been involved in the judging world for the AMCA longer than you've been a union electrician. What good did that do for me in the AMCA? They've taken my position, but they can't take my knowledge, experience and common sense away from me.

Road runs are great fun, but I don't need one to go for a ride. I ride every day. But I like road runs too, I didn't see you in Maine last year. We had great fun. The Maine road run was a lot of rough roads, it broke and disabled a few motorcycles. I know with the group that I was riding with, Rocky got the proverbial "turd" award for the most breakdowns. It was great fun, beautiful scenery, my 36 Chief with the sidecar worked flawlessly.

Robin