Save Our Judging

[Robin-M]

Dear Robin, I still hear a lot of anger there, as well as a lot of repetition. Let me just say in response that I don't do things that are illegal, and you over-estimate my influence on the Board and the Judging Committee.

Why not leave it a couple of weeks until Denton, and see if we can find a find a way to continue to use your knowledge for the benefit of our Club, its members, and their motorcycles? Best regards.

Steve,

I've been busy and not at my computer for a couple of days. And I've also just came down off the ceiling over this comment of yours. You say "you still hear a lot of anger from me and repetition" - I'll address repetition first, some times I need to say things several times before it gets through people's heads, and I see it still isn't working with you. So I'll say it again - 35 years in the AMCA judging world gives me a lot more knowledge, experienece, foresight and common sense than you will ever have. Without as much knowledge it's hard for you to comprehend and realize just how much you DON'T know or CAN'T comprehend. Now for the anger part, yes I'm angry, and I think you would be too. But Steve, I'm not the only one that is angry. Many, many of the members are angry too.

You mention "see if we can find a find a way to continue to use your knowledge for the benefit of our Club, its members, and their motorcycles". Who do you think you are to make this statement or to help in a decision? AND why would you be helping in this decision, you're not the Chief Judge, you're not the Assistant Chief Judge, although you are a judging committee member, I guess that's what you mean by "we". IT WON'T BE YOUR DECISION ON HOW THE AMCA CAN USE MY KNOWLEDGE, IT WILL BE MY DECISION. The only way the AMCA is going to "use" my knowledge for the benefit of our Club, is when the club realizes what they lost and gets rid of those that caused all the problems.

I think it's time for a JUDGING KNOWLEDGE TEST. Just like any other job appication, you have to prove your worthyness for the job. I'm ready for my test, are you?

Robin Markey

[gmarakas]

Let's call it for what it is.

I have followed the various threads pertaining to the recent debacle in Eustis. I find both side to be both charged with emotion and based in truth. It is debates like these that democracy is all about. And, it is here where I find my two cents to offer.

My greatest concern is when I read members like Steve Slocombe use the phrase "your board." How is it possibly "our board?" I don't recall ever being involved in a vote as a member of this organization. I offer my apologies if I missed my opportunity but I don't think there ever was an opportunity. This board is no more "our board" than the AMCA is "our organization." It belongs to a select few who elect each other. When the ruling party is both the ones who write the rules and then serve to enforce them, we no longer have a say in what happens.

I have read the new rules with great interest and find the majority of the manifesto to have merit. The way it is being crammed down everyone's throats is causing all this disagreement. The AMCA monarchy have decreed that we will do this or do that and the members of the organization should simply appreciate their fine work. What on earth has happened to this club?

We have witnessed "our board" in action and we find their actions to be unconscionable. Further, we are being told that our disagreement with the lofty fathers of vintage restoration should be consider dysfunctional. I can assure you that when a majority voice distaste with a monarchy it is neither dysfunctional nor unwarranted. Bringing personalities into the issue does not serve any of us well but it does speak to the anger that exists with "our board."

I wonder how many of the members who choose to remain silent will choose to remain members. This organization used to be fun. Now, it is a business run for a select few to enjoy. This is no longer a club. This is a political party. If you agree with "our board", then you are a loyal party member. If you do not, then you are a troublemaker.

"our board..." What a sham.

[redfred84]

Hey Kevin,
Ricky & I will be there. But we probably don't count, and we're bad guys. Is your brother going to bring his hot rod this year? This is the 3rd time I've sent this, it doesn't seem to be getting posted.
'till then, RF.

[kval]

Sounds like the choice for the new chief judge was made after a long and through decision.....................NOT.

Can't wait to speak with any board members I see at the Dixon AMCA meet, likely a local member first.

Papers please, papers please........................

knuck
probably the only board member there will be Jim Moore, take it easy on him. he is one of the good guys

[KNUCK]

Sounds like the choice for the new chief judge was made after a long and through decision.....................NOT.

Can't wait to speak with any board members I see at the Dixon AMCA meet, likely a local member first.

Papers please, papers please........................

[Paps]

OPINION ! Excellent choice of wording for a KISS [ keep it simple stupid ] legal disclaimer Kevin. Just plain excellent !! Paps

[kval]

Reasoning for a judging disclaimer was brought up once again. I personally could live with one if it was not the machine owner which was targeted. A disclaimer can be a simple statement to the affect the club does not make and warranty, expressed nor implied, to judgment / point accurracy. A machine owner signature would verify the owner read that statement. Simple.....I the undersigned fully understand the AMCA does not warrant our jugment scoring to be completely accurate. Period. Nothing more is needed for legal protection.

Paps
I guess us non-lawyer types don't know enough. when I first saw the disclaimer, I asked if it could not have been made into 1 or 2 lines printed on the bottom of the judging sheet, as I had just redesigned the sheet from an 8.5X11 to a 8.5X14 to give the judges more room to write explanations of deductions.
I also had to remind people what the definition of judge is
judge: to form a judgement or opinion of or upon
the key word is OPINION

[bmh]

Reasoning for a judging disclaimer was brought up once again. I personally could live with one if it was not the machine owner which was targeted. A disclaimer can be a simple statement to the affect the club does not make and warranty, expressed nor implied, to judgment / point accurracy. A machine owner signature would verify the owner read that statement. Simple.....I the undersigned fully understand the AMCA does not warrant our jugment scoring to be completely accurate. Period. Nothing more is needed for legal protection.

That just make way too much sense. Of course everyone should know that a disclaimer is nothing but a boondoggle anyhow, even the most wickedly crafted usually don't hold up well in court.

[2wheels]

To Fred the electrician, please pay attention. Robin has said several times on this thread that Rocky appoints the Chief Judge and Assistant Chief Judge. He also said Rocky could reverse his decision before this all turns into a bigger mess. Isn't it something how a few have said that we should all work together for the good of the club. Why didnt' the board, especially Sleve S and Rocky, WORK TOGETHER with Kevin and Robin, the two people that know the judging inside and out, for the good of the club? Here's the answer, because they were trying to take over the judging like Robin said in his Hostile Takeover thread on this forum. If not, they would have worked out the wrinkles and kept them in charge. Think about it, Kevin and Robin are supposed to work with this new group, but the board couldn't work with Kevin and Robin. Hmmmm

And someone mentioned our AMCA founding fathers, what do you think they'd feel with Rocky's decision of top judges and Rocky's behavior at Oley. I guarantee, if the founding fathers had a choice of top judges it wouldn't have been Rocky's choices, they would have picked someone with experience. And they wouldn't have been too proud of Rocky at Oley.

The message from Eustis was plain to see at Oley, a lot less bikes and hardly any judges. The message from Oley, will be interesting to see at Denton and Rhinebeck. If each meet's judging keeps getting worse, where will they be till Davenport?

And why would the two board members, Fred and Steve S, be condescending to Robin on this forum. They should be on their hands and knees begging him to come back.

It's a sad year for the AMCA. Let's hope the clear things up. Having the membership vote on competent people should help. It's crazy to have the board vote on the new board members, they vote in who they think they can have in their back pocket for a vote. I won't even begin to compare this to the USA.

Oh, that's another think I wanted to mention. I think it was Fred that said Steve S doesn't even take the compensation for coming to the USA for board meetings. I can understand why. There are many people in this club that don't think ANY of the board members should be from other countries, I've heard many comments. If he were getting paid to come here for board meetings, the members would be mad. Talk about a tea party!!!

[Paps]

Yes sir re ! Chris has been around quite a while. He invented the wheel ya know. Just razzin ya Chris.... Yes...there is a bit of heat getting exchanged on this here internet but what is wrong with that ? People are speaking their piece. Regardless of whether they find themselves agreeing on the issues makes no difference. They are pointing out what they believe to be correct, logical, or beneficial to the overall club. This is exactly where the majority must have a voice. The majotiy should make a choice from the choices provided. It is up to the choice providers to convince the majority that their policies are the route to take. Paps

[fillibuster]

bikes or people?

I like that the word "embarrassing" has been used as frequently as it has, here. Consider that old, rusty iron and metal things are far less embarrassing (in our eyes) than our people issues, how about that? I've had horses, dogs, and cattle humiliate me, in public, almost as badly as other people, but even a slow-to-start motorcycle is devoid of malice. The embarrassment here is for all of us collectively, as we look in the mirror and think of our predecessors and founders. No doubt they had issues too, but they didn't have the internet to air it out.
Years from now, we'll remember the changes and adjustments that evolved as being beneficial. If they were otherwise they'd be "changed" or "adjusted", we hope. What will hopefully settle out into oblivion will be the hot gossip, the dirty laundry and how dirty it was.
A helpful hint: air it out on the highway. You won't mind, and it won't matter.

[Chris Haynes]

Yeah Chris, but I'm only half your age!
: ) RF.

Thats OK Fred.
I will be collecting my Social Security while you are still paying into it for me. Keep on workin' Kid.

[redfred84]

Yeah Chris, but I'm only half your age!
: ) RF.

[Chris Haynes]

I just received my 30 year pin from the electricians union.

Do ya know what I say to a man with 30 years on the job? It is a good start.

[rwm]

fred it is nice to have only one vote! we have none as you know.