"outside looking in"

[Chris Haynes]

We have been doing this for years. At quite a few of the judging seminars.

That is also why I almost always had several apprentices with me during the judging. That's why it was hard to have a 10 or 15 minute time limit on judging because of trying to train apprentices and help field judges to hone thier skills. In fact, this year, I was planning on attending every meet to have this type of a seminar.

Robin Markey

It took us 3:15 to judge 5 bikes. Two of which had very little written on the judging sheet.

[Chris Haynes]

Robin and All,

Is the system all about individual's memory?

Vocal tradition?

Sorry for more questions.
I am not the only one who does not understand.

Respectfully,.. Don't take it personal,

...Cotten

Judging is strictly the judges opinion. We are not always correct and are happy to correct any errors we have made.
Judging is a learning experience for both the bikes owner and those judging it.
Cotten,
I would love you to join us in judging and attending seminars. Then all of your questions will be answered.

[T. Cotten]

Judging is strictly the judges opinion. We are not always correct and are happy to correct any errors we have made.
Judging is a learning experience for both the bikes owner and those judging it.
Cotten,
I would love you to join us in judging and attending seminars. Then all of your questions will be answered.

Chris!

I would love to be a "fly on the wall".

But some would see a bull's eye on my back, and if I accompanied a judged machine, there is no doubt that objectivity would suffer.

And face it: The vast majority of the membership, and even vendors, cannot bounce across the continent, or across the pond. I haven't found plane tickets in the dumpster (but I found some 1966 Peoria TT tickets!)

D-port is my only accessible event, and I spend it almost entirely within my booth. And as you know, most vendors are compelled to pack out long before the Sunday judging.

That is why I have had to rely upon second-hand reports, and this valuable forum. (That and the fact that I shall never afford a judgeable machine.)

I appreciate the invitation of course!


....Cotten
PS: Sorry, but I shall always have just one more question....

[Chris Haynes]

Cotten,
No one requires the vendors to leave the premises. You are just making an unacceptable excuse.

[T. Cotten]

Cotten,
No one requires the vendors to leave the premises. You are just making an unacceptable excuse.

Chris!

I wrote that most vendors are compelled to leave.
Many of them have to return to real lives, and many just do not have the resources for another day, after their market has vacated.

Once again I ask that words not be put into my mouth.

....Cotten

[Chris Haynes]

Cotten,
What you actually said was,

And as you know, most vendors are compelled to pack out long before the Sunday judging.

That is why I have had to rely upon second-hand reports, and this valuable forum. (That and the fact that I shall never afford a judgeable machine.)

[T. Cotten]

Chris,

The fact remains that many vendors leave early, and like myself, it is out of necessity.
At D-port, the mass exodus begins at noon Saturday! Most vendors are far from rich, and judging is just not the source of their income.

Or,.. is it profitable for some?

....Cotten

[fillibuster]

Chris, Sunday judging is simply a tough schedule fit for too many of us. My hat's off to you for your contribution, though, as I have doubted whether I could forfeit even a portion of the fun time engaged in shopping and viewing and hob-nobbing at Davenport. St Paul should have been my first experience, but I've had forfeited a valuable Monday if I'd stayed for Sunday judging. The grand kids held sway also.

If I can solo to D-port I'll try to join your ranks (if you'll have me), as Monday is there to rest or catch up. For other meets, though, I have to ask: is Sat afternoon for judging a lousy idea? What concerns have been evidenced by that idea in the past?

[Chris Haynes]

I am not a vendor. I used to sell but I got tired of standing in my space seeing guys carrying parts I was looking for. I take time off of work to travel to meets. Davenport is on a holiday weekend where the Monday after the meet is a National holiday. So I only lose work on Thursday and Friday. Thursday I fly into Chicago and drive to Davenport. I return home on Sunday and have Monday to recuperate.
Some meets have started having judging on Saturday. I don't know if the folks at Davenport are going to change or not.

[LouieMCman]

It's really tough to have Saturday judging because so much is going on Saturday. Typical Saturday schedule would be: 9:00 road run, 12:00 field events, 3:00 seminar (of some kind),
6:00 banquet. You could back up some stuff to Friday but then some people couldn't make that day either. I think only the smaller meets could have Saturday judging, just my humble opinion.

[T. Cotten]

I am not a vendor. I used to sell but I got tired of standing in my space seeing guys carrying parts I was looking for. I take time off of work to travel to meets. Davenport is on a holiday weekend where the Monday after the meet is a National holiday. So I only lose work on Thursday and Friday. Thursday I fly into Chicago and drive to Davenport. I return home on Sunday and have Monday to recuperate.
Some meets have started having judging on Saturday. I don't know if the folks at Davenport are going to change or not.

Sounds rough Chris!

I know exactly what you mean about 'tired of standing in my space' all too well. I've done it for decades, whoring off other's hardware before taking on my own PR booth; but please do not take a cavalier attitude towards hard-working vendors for not being able spare time because they have to pack and drive a rig home before the workweek starts. Many labor on Labor Day.

The AMCA should offer encouragement and support to small vendors. There is no 'trickle down' to them from the megamart vendors, I assure you!

....Cotten

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, our European meet has Saturday judging, with the prizes awarded at the banquet. It works well for us, but is nothing like the scale of Davenport.

Like Denise and Chris and Robin, I'd say come to a judging seminar and find out for yourself that it's just human beings doing the judging. You'll learn a lot, and be surprised at how much you know already.

On Internet judging, I've made a 23 minute DVD on judging a 1936 VLH Harley. It's fascinating if you've got one of these, interesting if you've got a VL, and sleep-inducing otherwise. Worldwide sales so far are two copies at $15, so this project is still about $1500 in the hole. I'm trying to get it posted on the Virtual Library. We also have a plan to post pictures of Winners Circle bikes on the Virtual Library, so keep checking out this part of our Website.