Hostile Takeover

[LouieMCman]

Aren't most takeovers hostile? Or does it seem that way to the outgoing party's?

I do find it amusing that the comment "I feel that it's time for the good-ole-boy mentality to be gotten rid of" was used by a member that was part of that system for many years. Now he feels like the rest of us do about the national board!

[Robin-M]

Louis,

Just wanted to clear this up.

I was NEVER part of the good-ole-boys. I've been trying to get on the board for over 10 years. I've watched a lot of members get on the board and go off the board while I've been trying to get on. I always thought that I could help benefit the running of the organization, as I always helped in the judging system making it fair and productive and as fun as possible for the benefit of the membership. Now, let me tell you a good one. I am the first person in the history of the AMCA to hold a national position and not be a board member.

I have worked to attain my position. It's not just the hours on the judging field, it's time spent behind the scenes to make the judging system run smoothly. Since October when this Hostile Takeover started, I've had to deal with over 500 emails of a new judging committee that was instigated by a board member (one of the good-ole-boys) with his own agenda to get rid of Kevin and myself because we overturned one of his friend's calls on the judging of a motorcycle. Sounds childish doesn't it. The leadership of this committee is incompetent to be handling the judging system. Like anything there are some good things coming out of the committee, but there's a lot more destructive things coming out. There was a lot of improvements and ideas that Kevin and I were working on this winter, but we had to stop to spend hours and hours dealing with this new committee.

When this improper committee was started by a board member, who's on the Policy and Procedures committee (among other committees), he broke policies and procedures, then the president made it legitamate so he could continue his quest. The president did not make him follow proper channels, any other member would have had to come to the Chief Judge and Assistant Chief Judge to have any grievance worked out, following proper protacol. He was given total control and allowed to do whatever he wanted to. So he did not have to work with Kevin and I - but - I was told the only way to maintain my position as Assistant Chief Judge was to work with the new Chief Judge and the committee. This was a title only position. So why was I reprimanded for doing no wrong, why wasn't the board member reprimanded for doing many things wrong in the start up of his first committee? Could it be because he's part of the good-ole-boys and I'm not?

I, like you, have always felt that the good-ole-boys shouldn't be in power.

Robin Markey

[Rubone]

I had my own experience with the wrath of judging good old boys in the past. I attended the first national judging seminar in Ohio in the early '90s and intended to pursue a judging position. Due to my location and profession I was unable to do it quickly and finally had my opportunity at the Canon City Meets. However I had the audacity to challenge a ruling by Peter Heintz on a machine and was basically told my help was no longer needed in the judging area. I was also contacted by the person displaying and was happy to provide him with factory documentation and he was able to get his points back after an appeal. But Peter never forgave me and that effectively ended my judging career. Despite my years of research and large personal library surrounding my favored brand it all came down to ego and the ability to control the outcome. I found out it wasn't about getting it right, just getting it his way. How could a lowly apprentice judge challenge the Chief? I have only had a bad taste in my mouth since then as surrounds the judging field.
Robbie Knight

[Robin-M]

Robbie,

This is what Kevin and I have worked so hard to try to eliminate. But now I've fearful that it's going to go back to that same type attitude. Kevin and I brought back a lot of judges like yourself that were not happy with the previous judging leadership. I wish you would have contacted us and been a part of a smooth running, working system. I too was at that first judging seminar.

Robin Markey

[William McClean]

Many Thanks !

Robin & Kevin.

THANKS to YOU, BOTH !! for the work and dedication you have given to the hobby and the Club.

I do hope that you remain among us and continue to share your knowledge and remain interested in having Fun, riding and restoring these old machines.

[Robin-M]

Thanks William,

I'm here for the long haul. I'll be having fun, riding and restoring bikes FOREVER!! And helping the owners do the same.

Robin Markey

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, our President Rocky Halter told me his fingers aren't fast enough to reply on this forum, so here's part of a communications note he sent out to Chapter Presidents last week, reporting on the Eustis Board Meeting:

"Judging. I've been concerned that our system, dating back to 1991, is vulnerable to replica bikes being passed off as genuine, and formed a President's Judging Committee to recommend changes to raise our game. Several motions were passed by the Board including that as-raced competition bikes be judged under a new system; six points be deducted for repro frames; six points deducted for repro engine top ends; repro engine cases be disqualified; and all bikes to have good numbers, meaning the right font for the year and model, and correct engine boss. Kevin Valentine resigned as Chief Judge, and I appointed Steve Dawdy in his place. Robin Markey later resigned as Deputy Chief Judge, and I would like to thank both Kevin and Robin for their hard work in this area. At 8 am on a freezing Sunday morning, I turned up at the Eustis Judges' Breakfast to explain the latest rules, and was surprised to find about 40 enthusiastic judges ready to work on about 80 bikes. The rule changes went down well; Kevin helped with a smooth handover of the trophies, paperwork, and computer database; and the judging finished about an hour earlier than last year. You will know I'm more into Road Runs and Swap Meets, but I'd like to say how impressed I was with this technical core of our Club which stays the extra day to help members get their bikes to showroom condition."

[redfred84]

Good of the Club

I had my own experience with the wrath of judging good old boys in the past. I attended the first national judging seminar in Ohio in the early '90s and intended to pursue a judging position. Due to my location and profession I was unable to do it quickly and finally had my opportunity at the Canon City Meets. However I had the audacity to challenge a ruling by Peter Heintz on a machine and was basically told my help was no longer needed in the judging area. I was also contacted by the person displaying and was happy to provide him with factory documentation and he was able to get his points back after an appeal. But Peter never forgave me and that effectively ended my judging career. Despite my years of research and large personal library surrounding my favored brand it all came down to ego and the ability to control the outcome. I found out it wasn't about getting it right, just getting it his way. How could a lowly apprentice judge challenge the Chief? I have only had a bad taste in my mouth since then as surrounds the judging field.
Robbie Knight

Hey Robbie!
Come on back! Don't let one bad encounter from years ago keep you from helping out the Good of the Club! The Judges' Breakfasts are much better these days too!
See ya on the Field, RF.

[exeric]

I think Kevin and Robin did a remarkable job with an extreamly challenging chore. The only bikes I've had judged were under their auspices and that was for the simple reason that I thought the previous systems were flawed. I'll say no more on that. Robin beat me up badly on a my Indian but he was right and I now know what needs to be fixed. Kevin cut me a break on my Henderson because he could tell that it had run, (it just didn't run when it was asked to.) I think Kevin and Robin followed the spirit of judging and not the letter of judging. This is not to say that they ignored the details but they could see the big picture and that judging is something that should benefit the membership. I'll keep an open mind about the future, but I think Kevin and Robin are going to be a tough act to follow.

[Paps]

There is no greater asset than the well seasoned judge and no greater a teacher than this individual to educate the novice judge. Paps

[bmh]

Well all I know is this. Two meets have been held, and judged by two different sets of criteria. There are apparently no current published guidelines as to what is eligible to be judged or how it is to be done. Oley is only a few weeks away, wonder which rules will be in effect there? It would appear that the new leadership has a lot of work to do. While I do not have any more information than what I have read here, I certainly do believe this thing could have been handled in a much more positive and professional manner. But I also have my suspicions that there is a whole lot more to this than a concern for someone passing off phony bikes for judging. Why does everything always seem to be so cloak and dagger at that level?

[hackwing]

I think the thread is missing the real issue.

There are several key functions in the club that make it function. Judging rules are one of them. Now think about this for a moment; is there any office in city, county, state that doesn't have a recall clause.

Where is that clause in our club constitution?

Is there any city, state or county government in which key laws do not require a vote of the electorate?

Where is that in our constitution?

It would have been common decency to have sent out a notice to the entire membership that a rule change was up for adoption and if not a vote then a least a pole of the membership should have been taken to ascertain their consent or feels on the issue.

THE BOARD EXISTS TO SERVE THE MEMBERSHIP not the other way around.

The board took an issue which could have been "discussed" or "negotiated" and turned it into a conflict.

1. Its not clear there was a real issue, only 2 bikes were involved.

2. KEVIN NEVER RESIGNED! He left the room in order to cool off so as to return the discussion to a normal volume level.

3. There is no reason for raised voices in a "club" board meeting. As a past presiding officer of another hobby organization, yelling should be automatic cause for removal from the board including the president.

4. As a matter of principle, I have very strong feelings that no vendor who makes his living from the hobby should be allowed to be president of a hobby organization. The conflicts between business and position become ethically questionable. It is rumored that at least 2 board members have a financial business arrangement which might have affected their judgement in this matter.

5. As a matter of record, Kevin and Robin have brought more new members into this club than all the board members combined! Kevin, in his position, was the first one they called for information about how to participate in judging, and the last one they talked to when after the meet they had a question. The same is true of Robin. While Robin is more gregarious, Kevin tends to be, on the outside, a curmudgeon both have a heart of gold.

Other organizations search for decades to find "an honest man". In judging the club had two, not one!

The board has done a personal disservice to these two individuals. Both have been deeply hurt by the arrogant actions by two self serving board members.

Kevin and Robin deserve a public and personal apology from the "agitator" who instigated this unnecessary conflict and the "illustrious leader" who was not even gracious enough to look these two individuals in the eye and have a fact to fact discussion.

Just a member (who sure as hell wll not do any volunteer work for the current national administration)

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Bob, your loyalty to your friends does you credit, but channeling these same baseless allegations in public does not.

For our earlier correspondents, I can report that Rocky did not shout at Kevin at the Eustis Board. I was there. Our procedures allow up to two Club members to be present as observers at Board Meetings given 30 days notice to the Secretary.

The Club was founded by four businessmen in 1954 so has always had part or full-time dealers on the Board. We have a written conflict of interest policy which is carefully followed. Copies are available from the Club Secretary.

In my opinion, it was the proposal that the judging system should grade the quality of number jobs which set the Board to reminding us that our purpose is to preserve a piece of motorcycling history rather than give out trophies to all and sundry. I note that some Eustis Winners' Circle bikes had not been started in years, and some other bikes were disqualified for bad numbers despite carrying previous judging awards.

Sitting in a nine hour meeting with eleven disparate and independent Board Members makes me think that engineering a conspiracy is a laughable idea.

We've given our previous Chief and Deputy Judges credit for their many years of support to our Club. Let's now move on with the new team and the new system. Perhaps some of the remarks on third-party forums can be reconsidered or even withdrawn.

I'm sure the new Chief and Deputy Chief Judges are happy to answer judging questions on this forum, and I have opinions too. I'm a big fan of Board Governance and Board Operations, and would be happy to try to answer Club members questions, but under a separate thread please.

[INLINE4NUT]

So after reading this Mr Socombe am I reading you right we should just stop talking about this and get on with YOUR agenda??? Why is it when something like this happens everyone how inmy opinion have something to hide or are ashamed of what they have taken part in they just want everyone to forget !! Im sorry but you and the rest of the board have not made a statement that really explains how we got here ! By doing this you all are guilty of degrading a wonderful club !! I for one have lost alot of interest in the club,I will still will stand on the sidelines and at some point Im sure I will stop paying dues (unless we take a more positive direction !) ! But I will not stop enjoying old bikes or owning them !!! Everything has a high and low point it seems we have reached a NEWLOW ! If nothing else Kevin and Robin deserve to leave with RESPECT which for the most part I havent seen to many on the other side show them !!!!! Gentlemen show RESPECT even in the most adverse situations!! Lets ALL try to be GENTLEMEN...its not a forgotten art !!!

[Steve Slocombe]

No, I'm saying we should get on with OUR agenda of having fun with old bikes. The Board tries hard to concentrate on the antique bikes and the membership rather than personalities, and I don't know Kevin and Robin well enough for these recent events to be personal. We've paid tribute to their previous support of our judging function; neither of them appears to want to be associated with a new and more rigorous system; and three weeks of one-sided whining to the world at large is surely enough. Let's move on, keep riding, restoring and maintaining our bikes, and have fun with our great club.

I'll be at Oley and Davenport if you or any other Club member would like to talk about your concerns, and I'm ready to respond elsewhere on this forum to questions about Board operations. Best regards.