Competitition bikes

[pete reeves]

I have been reading the judging hand book to try and clarify what bikes would qualify to be entered in to the competition class of our judging system?

The only thing I could find was a single paragraph which says.

“Competition considerations: In order for factory racers to meet judging requirements the motorcycle be representative of the last year it was raced which includes parts and accessories available with the technology of that year. We encourage the display of these motorcycles as an on going part of motorcycle history.”

It would appear from this paragraph that only factory racers qualify?

Over the last few years I have seen a number of bikes entered and judged which were not factory racers. Some may have been privateer race bikes with a history and provenance proving a racing history. These bikes I feel should be judged. But I have also seen a number of bikes that have no competition history and have been made up using standard motors reproduction parts and components from different years and models these bikes may look like race bikes and may have been well built but they do not have any historical value.

Should these bikes be judged as competition bikes? Or would entrée into the period modified class be more appropriate for them?

Pete Reeves 860

[bmh]

I don't believe that competition models are judged per-say. At least not in the same manner as production machines with the 25 categories with 4 points each. Thought it was done more along the lines of period modified. At least I've never noticed a judging crew crawling over one for 30 minutes. Of course I'm not always paying attention either.

[Chris Haynes]

Competition machines are judged. But the standards are different. They are allowed to be in the condition that they were in when last raced.

[T. Cotten]

Chris pointed out:
"They are allowed to be in the condition that they were in when last raced."

Sweet Cheeses!
Shouldn't that be the preferred ideal?

Hell. It aught to be illegal to even clean them.
Especially if they were raced last week.

...Cotten

[William McClean]

I would like to see some carbon in the exhaust.

[exeric]

I had a friend that restored a J model H-D racer. The bike had a true, but unremarkable racing history. Granted, it's history was anecdotal and oral but you could see that it had been cobbed and modified to suit the needs of 'real' racing. No one who saw the bike in it's original form would have doubted it saw real race track action. When my friend finished with the bike it was pristine and spotless. Perfect paint, perfect nickel, and silver soldered joints where before were globby coat-hanger welds. He used white cotton gloves to ease it out of the trailer and it rolled on tire cozies. This fellow was a great friend, skilled craftsman, tireless perfectionist, and a stickler for authenticity but he ruined that bike. This was a lot of years ago and I was a real neophyte about discretionary restoration but even then, I thought he was over doing it. Today, I would say that he turned a historical icon into a period modified, or a candidate for a people's choice award.

[c.o.]

Chris pointed out:
"They are allowed to be in the condition that they were in when last raced."

Sweet Cheeses!
Shouldn't that be the preferred ideal?

Hell. It aught to be illegal to even clean them.
Especially if they were raced last week.

...Cotten

You echoed my thoughts for sure...........

[c.o.]

I had a friend that restored a J model H-D racer. The bike had a true, but unremarkable racing history. Granted, it's history was anecdotal and oral but you could see that it had been cobbed and modified to suit the needs of 'real' racing. No one who saw the bike in it's original form would have doubted it saw real race track action. When my friend finished with the bike it was pristine and spotless. Perfect paint, perfect nickel, and silver soldered joints where before were globby coat-hanger welds. He used white cotton gloves to ease it out of the trailer and it rolled on tire cozies. This fellow was a great friend, skilled craftsman, tireless perfectionist, and a stickler for authenticity but he ruined that bike. This was a lot of years ago and I was a real neophyte about discretionary restoration but even then, I thought he was over doing it. Today, I would say that he turned a historical icon into a period modified, or a candidate for a people's choice award.

A person can never tell another what to do with their bikes. But sometimes don't you wish you could for history's sake?

[theknucklehead]

Eric and Cory, I also agree with you that over-restoration strips a bike of all past history and character but sometimes there is no choice but to restore. I am in the process of restoring a WR race bike from Hap Jones old shop. Unfortunately the motor has been blown up and it's missing a frame and tanks along with a lot of other parts that were robbed during the years to complete other bikes. It has a race history in the SF Bay Area but nothing really significant. I have no choice but to restore it as most of it is in boxes and broken. I wish it were a complete bike so all I had to do was get it running but it's way beyond that. I plan on restoring it how I would have wanted it to be if I had purchased it from Hap Jones, (after all it is my bike). I guess that in this case at least people will be able to see it and hear about it's not so significant checkered past on the race track and maybe watch it's "new" history on a few tracks like Davenport or Wasseon.
Better completely restored than a bunch of broken parts in a box.

[c.o.]

Hank your situtation is understandable. In your case restoration sounds like the way to go. It's the perfectly aged bikes in good condition that become shiney new over restorations that are disturbing ( to me anyway!). Have at 'er man and ride the hell out of that WR when you get it rollin'!

[theknucklehead]

Thanks Cory, I plan to ride the %$#& out of it. When I talk about racing it my wife keeps on reminding me of the "old racers" saying: The older I get the better I was....

Back to Pete's original question, If all I have is some original motor parts, tranny and other parts that have been restored from an old Kenny Eggers race bike is it "worthy" of being judged?

[pete reeves]

Hank.
On the face of it a WR is a factory competition bike so it would seem logical that it would be judged as a competition bike. But the only paragraph in the judges hand book that refers to competition bikes is vague.
To me it looks like it was the intention of those who wrote the rules many years ago to try to prevent owners restoring original race bikes and destroying there history by allowing CONCIDERATION when judged

There is no mention in this paragraph of restored competition bikes.

Perhaps when this rule was written there was not a separate class for competition bikes and original competition bikes were penalised because they had later date equipment on them.

We now have a competition class but it looks like the only written rule I can find for it is vague/out of date.


Kevin.
What are the criteria for having a bike judged in the competition section?

Would the following bikes Qualify.

An original unrestored Factory Racer as raced with later period parts.

An original restored factory Racer as it left the factory.

An original restored factory racer with later period parts.

An original unrestored standard bike that has been modified for racing using later period parts. (With history and provenance)

An original unrestored standard bike that has been modified for racing using later period parts (with no history or provenance)

A restored standard bike that has been modified for racing using later period parts.
(with a history proving that it was raced or the conversion was carried out during the early history of the bike)

A restored standard bike that has been modified for racing using later period parts.
(With no history or proof that the modification was carried out during the bikes early history)


A bike made up of parts to look like a period raceing bike(a restored bike or paternised to look old.)

The easiest way to build a bike from scratch and attain a winner’s circle award is to build a competition bike.

Pete Reeves 860