original vs. restored

[c.o.]

Well said Cotten. I love to stumble across old bikes in museums but I can't help but thinking how I could spring them from "prison" and see them out on the road....

[Chris Haynes]

It is only original once. It can be restored countless times.

[parkerize]

Eric- I am not one of those dueling email lords but I respectfully think you misconstrued my original email. I was only responding to your quote that "Original bikes are a treasure and a touchstone for restoration but there sure isn't much work on the part of the owner." The amount of work on the original piece found all depends on the condition of the machine. Having put 3 OP bikes in Winners circle this past year and 2 other original painters in senior this year, I can tell you they were a ton of work to get them there, countless worlwide conversations, searching etc for many years, as well as painstakingly rebuilding worn mechanicals in many cases, as well as matching patinas on scarce parts that were either missing or wrong. What I was not at all implying is that OP bikes are either more or less work than restored machines, circumstances and owner skill sets vary and in my mind it is irrelevant. Again all I was responding to was the statement that there sure isn't much work on the part of the owner of OP bikes, that's all. Happy Holidays and hunting to all and be safe, lifes too short already. . .

[exeric]

I know a few people who have built original paint bikes from 50% examples and you are right; it's a ton of work and very expensive and time consuming. Your window of intrusion is very narrow. Probably like building a ship in a bottle. I apologize for dismissing it as simple. I was thinking of a judging experience I had a number of years ago. My restored bike was judged next to the exact same year and model OPB bike. [Each bike judged on it's own merits of course.] The owner got the bike from a relative a few months earlier and only knew the obvious facts about it. The fact that he was an obnoxious drunk didn't endear him to me either.

[Chuck#1848]

Well said Cotten. I love to stumble across old bikes in museums but I can't help but thinking how I could spring them from "prison" and see them out on the road....

Ah....yes,Cory now that to was well said...kind of like seeing a greyhound in a dog cage just begging to get out and run

[parkerize]

Yes, I know the feeling eric on the guys that find gems and are clueless, only good news is many times those are the guys that end up selling them for lack of a real interest. Enjoy the holidays and good luck on your projects. Anthony.

[bmh]

Eric- I am not one of those dueling email lords but I respectfully think you misconstrued my original email. I was only responding to your quote that "Original bikes are a treasure and a touchstone for restoration but there sure isn't much work on the part of the owner." The amount of work on the original piece found all depends on the condition of the machine. Having put 3 OP bikes in Winners circle this past year and 2 other original painters in senior this year, I can tell you they were a ton of work to get them there, countless worlwide conversations, searching etc for many years, as well as painstakingly rebuilding worn mechanicals in many cases, as well as matching patinas on scarce parts that were either missing or wrong. What I was not at all implying is that OP bikes are either more or less work than restored machines, circumstances and owner skill sets vary and in my mind it is irrelevant. Again all I was responding to was the statement that there sure isn't much work on the part of the owner of OP bikes, that's all. Happy Holidays and hunting to all and be safe, lifes too short already. . .

So what's the difference between what you are doing and restoration? The choice of finish? Last I checked the judging categories are Original and Restored. I can't find one for original paint. To me if your original find cannot be made to run and be shown for for judging without major disassembly and parts replacement, it is in need of restoring. True original or even surviving machines serve as benchmarks for what is actually correct and of the taste of the period, until someone starts swapping parts around to create what they believe to be more correct or suit their own taste. I for one find it very sad that the current judging system actually rewards this type of thing thereby helping to erode the history we should be seeking to preserve.

[Chris Haynes]

If an "Original" bike has had the sheet metal repainted it receives a six point deduction. With that six point loss it can never earn a Junior First award. So if you find a nice original running and rideable 1919 machine and it was repainted in 1923 you are out of luck. Your only hope is to locate original paint sheet metal for it.

[parkerize]

Brian- With all due respect, I dont know many OP bikes that do not need serious attention as most generally sit untouched for years and the owner painstakingly goes through them to have them in "running condition", a requirement of the AMCA judging book. Now serious attention does not mean a major dissassembly as you note (at least not for me anyway), but in many instances it does mean rebushing/packing wheels, rebuilding top ends, going through frozen throttles and spark advance systems, rebuilding corroded carbs, going through the electrical system (and many times rebuilding generators and cutouts), replacing a variety of difficult to find hardware and wiring that invariably have been replaced and changing out whatever parts happen to be missing or wrong. I think the AMCA judging system is generally spot on, ensuring that an "original" class machine really is "original" by requiring all original paint sheetmetal, original wiring harness, frame and fork paint etc. (with serious deductions as Chris pointed out earlier where the machine fails to have these items). Sometimes you get lucky and little is required but that is the rarity- that's all.

[Perry Ruiter]

If an "Original" bike has had the sheet metal repainted it receives a six point deduction. With that six point loss it can never earn a Junior First award.

The six point loss keeps it from winning a Senior award. It can still get to Junior First ... Perry

[Jerry Wieland]

I guess I have to agree with Chris on this one. Sometimes a bike is not original enough to be judged as such but too original to be restored. I think a conserved class or whatever you would want to call it is a good enough idea to at least merit discussion by the club.

I really hate to see bikes restored - restored bikes ought to be made up of pieces that have no individual historical merit.

Jerry

[T. Cotten]

Again I speak as an outsider to the judging system, but...

A flawlessly restored machine is an expensive ride.
So many get embalmed.
A historical original is priceless.
So many get embalmed.

Conserved machines are the heartbeat of vintage motorcycling.
Personalized ones are its life's breath.

But the AMCA system clearly favors, promotes, and enforces destructive restoration, with its all-or-none policy.

Don't look now, but there is a flood of classic imports coming into our fold. Its almost 1975, y'know.
What sort of burden is that for our judges. Will the old rules even seem relevant?

One broad new class is better than a bunch of silly little ones (like "Period Modified"), and it might just save some history.


....Cotten